Brick wall - Daltrey in London

[Wood-dweller]

Good points Michael The "three brothers" story is very interesting! I started looking further into non-conformist records and then went off on a tangent (family history seems very good for that!) and decided to go back to the first "definite" evidence of James that I have - his marriage to Mary Lewis in 1740. It was in Southwark so I started looking for records of Daltreys there and came across a fascinating website! There are a great many mentions of William Dawtre (or Dawttre or Dawtrey, the spellings vary throughout) in the late 1500s. It may well just be coincidence and not linked to our Daltreys but it's very interesting that it's a variation of Daltrey in the earlier "definite" place we know of. It makes a fascinating read regardless!

You can find links to much of the info at http://www-personal.umich.edu/~ingram/StSaviour/

I just opened lots of the pages and searched the page for the text "Daw" and it came up with many mentions of William Dawttre and the wall he built

1579 May 4 Monday:
A Vestry called the 4th of May Anno 1579, being the 15th day after Easter in the presence of these persons following, at which time the churchwardens brought in their quarter account for that quarter viz Robert Pinder, John Darlysonne, John Trene, John Pidgin, John Mounfyld, and Walter Burtonne, the Queen's Majesty paid her half year's rent due at this day for this parsonage, and all other debts, duties, and charges owing by the parish any way to any person being then paid and discharged in like manner by the said churchwardens, yet their doth remain in their hands this present day as money of the parish's, the sum of £13 6s 8d, I say £13 6s 8d.
At which Vestry William Dawtrye came in and requested that the law betwixt the parish and him might surcease, and submitted himself to the parish, and requested that he might have a lease of the ground whereupon his brick wall stands adjoining unto our church way, and abutteth upon the well house of the Bull Head for the yearly rent which was granted him at the setting up of the wall, which was 16d by the year. In consideration whereof he paid the same day in the Vestry to Robert Pinder, being then churchwarden, and the rest of the churchwardens all the charges which he caused us to spend in the law in Richard Dodsonn's time, which was the sum of 21s 0d. Also he paid more the same time unto the said churchwardens for five years' [ar]rearages, which was behind and unpaid for the said ground 6s 8d, in all the sum of 27s 8d, and so he departed. And then the house concluded with the whole consent that he should have a lease of the same, and for the same rent, which lease should be for so many years as at this day is unexpired of Thomas Bromfyld's lease of the garden plot within the said wall — 27s 8d.

There are also searchable "Token book" records on there in which Dawtry is mentioned three times between 1572 - 1579 and he also witnesses three different wills with the earliest being 1563.

It's another long shot but it may be worth us concentrating on Southwark to look for traces of James? What do you think? After partially dismissing the idea of us being related to the Sussex Dawtreys, it's quite ironic that the spelling is the same! I wonder if there is a link after all ... ?

[essaying_life]

Very interesting - will reflect on this when I have time and get back.

Forgot to add in last email - on issue of date of James birth, Spiller - located the 1741 request for marraige licence with Lydia - which gave James age as 25 on 31.12.1741 - so working on James birth must be 1715/1716.

Be in touch again soon

[Wood-dweller]

Just a very quick note to day that I stumbled across another forum today where some people were discussing trying to trace a different line of Daltreys/Dawtreys. They discuss the William/Jane/Willsford group I mentioned in my post above. I though they may be a possible family for our James but it looks like one of the people on the forum have studied the family quite a bit and there's no mention of James at all, just the other children they had. So, it looks less likely to me that James would fit with this group after all. Of course, it's not ruled out but I just thought I'd mention it anyway. The thread is at http://pub11.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=907514572&frmid=22&msgid=1122799&cmd=show

One post from the thread (I think they're looking at the possibility of these Daltreys being linked to the group from Gainsborough):

It would be interesting to see what the 1689 William Dealtry did for a living...the Gainsborough Dealtrys were wine merchants so it is quite likely that they would have had some presence in the capital.

Interesting that I've seen a fair few Daltreys living in Vintry ward which was so-named because of all the wine merchants there.

Anyway, my brain is feeling rather frazzled with all these possibilities but I may post a reply on the other forum to see if anyone picks it up and we can all share a few notes. If there was a link, it may also tie in the Nottingham/Gainsborough/York Daltreys :-)

[Spiller]

Hi all
Like many coming back to this brick wall again recently.
Firstly though, I've not been too convinced about the Huguenot connection in early 1700s as checked the French church in the city via the H society and nothing like daltrey listed anywhere.
Secondly I've just discovered on Findmypast (not listed on Ancestry or Family' search) a James Daltry born in Beverley Yorkshire in 1717 (year is at most 1 year out) to father James a shoemaker.  No proof of link to London but I can't find any subsequent Yorkshire records (marriage, children, death) relating to him and people clearly did move to London (e.g. Richard Dealtry will from 1740 says lived Whitechapel left lease in Bubwith Yorkshire - son James, another red herring!). Looks like his  father married a Mary which is James and Lydia's first daughters name I believe.
Not proven I know but given lack of any London (or anywhere else given birth date now known)  or Huguenot connections maybe it works......

[Spiller]

Just to add James baptism was 2 May 1717, actual birth could easily have been 1716 i.e. before 25 March.

[Spiller]

Sorry meant also to add, seems were some Huguenots who came over to Yorkshire in earlier wave in 1500s...

[Spiller]

Hi, sorry about multiple posts but just found London apprenticeship record from 1678 for William Daltrey son of Hugh Daltrey of Beverley Yorkshire. So moving down (or sending son) to London clearly did happen. Have found baptism for Willus son of Hugonis in 1663. William (who may be the Carrington William around 1690) could be uncle of James, his father Hugh brother to William and also in Beverly a Hugh bpt in 1675 son of John - stretching s point but these could be 3 brothers! Can only find the 1663 William baptism though. All very speculative but it could all fit. Need to spend more time on this.

[dawnsh]

Hi Spiller

Welcome to Rootschat 

Wood-dweller was online here last September so should receive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.

Dawn

[Daltrey]

Early history of Daltrey

Someone wanted to know who the parents of James Daltrey  - died 1694

Parents William Daltrey 1663-1732 married Janes Willford 1663 -1731/2 and had other children - Sarah, Elizabeth, John, Willsford (?), Samuel, Mary , Susannaand Rosamud.

-See attached pdf  Note Early Daltreys -that that came with William the conqueror are recorded a side chapel in York Minster, York