William John Gilbert: his siblings and his children

[snaptoo]

Snaptoo, I take it “Nellie” is Ellen Lempriere Deane?  Do you know if she had any family or when she died?
I’m afraid I don’t yet have much experience of tracing people in England, so probably can’t add much to what you know of your Deanes over there. 
Thanks to the link to the Wilson (etc) site – I’d forgotten about its existence. 
I’ve no objections if someone wants to split the thread by the way. 

    Profuse apologies MFGilbert - it would appear that I have overlooked replying to your post

I am sorry, but I know nothing other than she was called Nellie. My father died in May 1976, which was long before I started even thinking about FH, so never thought to ask him about his Aunt. There is nobody left on his side of the family that I am aware of, so I have no-one to ask

Once again, apologies for the tardy reply

snaptoo

[Gilby]

Hi, no worries.  I was just checking over your information again.  Maybe you know more since you posted, but you said you didn’t know when James Killen Deane married Gladys Lloyd – well according to Ancestry it was on the 15th January 1911, although having looked at the record image I don’t see where the date is written.  Gladys was apparently of the Parish of Emmanuel.

Gladys’s parents were John Roger Lloyd and Ellen.  Going by the census their children were:

c1872 John Woodward Lloyd
c1874 Edith Ellen Annette Lloyd
c1876 Beatrice Alice Lloyd
c1877 Arthur Llewellyn Lloyd
c1885 Gladys Gwendoline Lloyd

There’s a Burch family tree on Ancestry – it has the mother’s name as Ellen Woodward.  Apparently daughter Edith married Richard James Brandon Burch.

I haven’t found out anything else about your great aunt Ellen Lapriere Deane – I don’t know what happened to her 

[snaptoo]

Oh dear I seem to be making a habit of failing to reply to your posts Profuse apologies once again

Unfortunately, FH is having to take a back seat - at least for the time being - but I will at least make comment on your post!............

I now know more about my grandmother than I ever did before!

The surname Burch rings a VERY vague bell, but have not got a clue why

Thanks for your help

snaptoo

[pablo1]

This family is probably connected somehow to James McAuley of Ardymaugh (c. 1809-1874) who was married to Ellen Brice Killen (c. 1820-1889), buried Glenwherry Presbyterian Graveyard.

1901-the following family was living at 43 Ballinahsee, Rashee and in 1911 at 15 Ballinashee:

1.  John McCauley, b. abt 1849 m. Margaret Killen, b. abt. 1861

2.  William McCauley, b. abt. 1884

2.  Ellen McCauley, b. abt. 1885

2.  James McCauley, b. abt. 1887

2.  John McCauley, b. abt. 1888

2.  Jane McCauley, b. abt. 1891

2.  Edward McCauley, b. abt. 1893;  this Edward possibley married in 1928 at Gardenmore Presbyterian Church to Margaret Robinson, daughter of Robert Robinson of Larne.

2.  Francis McCauley, b. abt. 1894

2.  Robert McCauley, b. abt. 1895

2.  Elizabeth M. (Lizzie Annie in 1901) McCauley, b. abt. 1897

2.  Maggie (Margaret)McCauley, b. abt. 1898

2.  Rachel McCauley, b. abt. 1899

2.  Catherine McCauley, b. abt. 1901

2.  Agnes McCauley, b. abt. 1902

2.  David McCauley, b. abt. 1903

2.  Thomas McCauley, b. abt. 1906

[jennigal923]

Hi

I have the Douglas lineage for this family. If you'd like access send me a PM would love to share.

Jenni

[Gilby]

Hi Jenni,

Don’t worry, you sent me a link to the Douglas tree back when we last spoke.

It’s interesting you messaged today actually because I was thinking about the Gilbert-Douglas family yesterday.  Recently I visited PRONI with a Gilbert cousin from Canada.  We looked up a couple of leases to Gilberts in Lurgan.

One was an 1825 document referring to “the Blackhole Tenement” in Lurgan.  A Henry Gilbert had just obtained permission from the Brownlows to extend his property in the centre of Lurgan:

Henry Gilbert who claims the premises granted by the lease of 1717 and lastly renewed in 1785, a few months ago obtained permission from the present Mr. Brownlow to build not only on this part which he claims as a passage to the Black hole but to extend the building to 25 feet more upon that part of the ground where on the old market house stood in order to throw a proper front toward the entrance to the town, and to make what he calls a decent finish to that part of the street and under such permission he, the said Gilbert began about a month ago to lay down materials and to excavate the grounds for the foundation of the intended building. But a few days ago he was served with a notice by one Robert Trails, who lives in the house opposite to the ground which has been excavated and whose house would certainly be affected by the intended erection than any of the others cautioning him the said Gilbert from proceeding wherewith and him digging up or disturbing the street of said town.

I believe this Henry Gilbert (by his wife Ann Douglas) is the father of the John Gilbert who married Sarah Douglas.  Henry died in 1847 aged 90 and his wife Ann died in 1828 aged 69.

The plot mentioned had been in the Gilbert family since at least 1703 when it is shown on a map of the town.  The 1717 lease refers to:

That piece of ground in the town of Lurgan which formerly was a passage to the Black-Hole bounded by the house of Jonathan Gilberts father to said Jonathan on the one side, by the market house shop then in the possession of Mich Quin and his tenant on the other side by the Market-House stairs on the back and on the front by the street.

From the names in the leases we know Jonathan Gilbert senior had a wife called Ann, and they had sons (among others) Jonathan and Stephen.  Jonathan junior had sons Henry, Jonathan and Thomas, also a daughter “Frances Gilbert of Castle Blayney in the County of Monaghan” who was aged about 15 in 1748.  (Jonathan senior died around about 1717 and Jonathan junior died about 1747.)

Henry (son of Jonathan junior) had a son called John who was apparently a clothier, aged about 10, of Lonegrew (?) in County Meath in 1748.  What was he doing away over there??

Assuming the Henry Gilbert mentioned in the 1825 document is “Henry Gilbert of Lurgan, yarn merchant” (c1757-1847) then I think this proves he was a descendant of Jonathan and Ann Gilbert who we think arrived in Lurgan in about the 1690s and are mentioned in Quaker records. 

If I had to take a (somewhat unsubstantiated) guess I’d say Henry the yarn merchant was son of John, son of Henry, son of Jonathan, son of Jonathan and Ann.

[Gilby]

Does anyone know anything about the “Black Hole” in Lurgan?  We’re thinking it must have been a solitary confinement pit for prisoners, possibly underneath the old market house.  This is another extract from the 1825 document:

The Premises above demesed were as in said lease expressed “the passage to the Black hole” which was situate underneath the then market house of Lurgan and on or about the month of June 1776 the same, together with the Market House were burned to the ground and the entire piece of ground where on the said Market House stood, as also the premises above demised, However since remained open and unoccupied in any way by Mr. Brownlow or any of his ancestors or agency of the persons claiming under the aforesaid lease. But the same have been used from the year 1776 until the present time as part of the street of Lurgan for the exhibition of the several goods wares and merchandise brought to that town on Market days and four days for sale same as hereafter is mentioned.


Belfast Newsletter, 14-18th Jun 1776:
On Saturday morning a fire broke out in Lurgan, which burned with such violence as in a very short space to consume two good dwelling houses, and the Market-house, to the ground.

[pablo1]

I am interest in the following Douglas family:  Surgeon William Douglas married Margaret Cuppage.
Does anyone know what happened to the children from this marriage, aside from their son who became a doctor and married into the Fulton family of Lisburn.

[jennigal923]

Pablo send me a pm with your email. I'll need to dig but I have a little more information (not a lot). Have you seen the PRONI doc for Dr William Douglas? Family requesting that some one local to Lurgan care for Dr William?  I think I have s death for a sister of William ( or daughter).

Jenni