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Author Topic: COMPLETED - George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall  (Read 569 times)

Online keyboard86

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Re: George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #9 on: Monday 09 September 13 13:57 BST (UK) »
Hi the 1871 family are still Coates in 1861:-

John 24 occ Porter b Braintree, Essex
Mary 25 b St James
Mary Ann 5 b St James
George 2 b St Ann's
Elizabeth Ann 4 months b St James
Residing 39, Great Windmill Street, St James
Census ref RG09/62/60/28
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Offline Lessa

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Re: George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #10 on: Monday 09 September 13 16:31 BST (UK) »
Living just round the corner. How did I miss that! Thank you so much.

I think I have enough for now as I can't see any obvious holes in the theory. Will see about getting some certificates to fill in the blanks.


Many thanks to all who helped. It just shows how vital it can be to have new eyes look.

Will mark as completed but if anyone comes along in the future with new/conflicting info and/or a connection to these people then please do get in touch. Thanks again  :)


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Re: COMPLETED - George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #11 on: Monday 09 September 13 16:44 BST (UK) »
Living just round the corner. How did I miss that! Thank you so much.

I think I have enough for now as I can't see any obvious holes in the theory. Will see about getting some certificates to fill in the blanks.


Many thanks to all who helped. It just shows how vital it can be to have new eyes look.

Will mark as completed but if anyone comes along in the future with new/conflicting info and/or a connection to

these people then please do get in touch. Thanks again  :)

First thing, if 1861/71 correct, then where/when was marriage John James to a Mary A and when did John/James become a Horse Dealer ( Big change of occupation ie Porter/Butcher, but not impossible)!

Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lessa

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Re: COMPLETED - George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #12 on: Monday 09 September 13 17:27 BST (UK) »
What I have so far is that John/James, son of William & Mary Ann, lived in Shalford, Essex up until after 1851. In the 1851 census his occupation in Shalford was Groom, so I am assuming for now that when he moved up to the big city he took whatever work was available Porter/Packer, and either moved onto Horses or George thought that sounded better than Butcher.

I will, as funds allow, try to get all the certificates that have been located so far, especially as getting any of the birth certs will give me a surname for Mary Ann as well as the occupation of John/James. I shall start with John James b. 1863 I think.

I have looked for a marriage but with no success so far. These are the ones I think are currently possibles:
Q. Jun 1857 - Greenwich - James Coote & Mary Reynolds
Q. Jun 1858 - Mile End - John Coote & Mary Ann Smith
Q. Mar 1859 - Bermondsey - James Coote & Mary Ann Walker
Q. Mar 1861 - St Luke - James Coote & Mary Ann Sarah Free
Q. Jun 1861 - Hackney - James Coote & Mary Fearchild
Q. Sep 1861 - Chelsea - James Coote & Mary Ann Francis

The 2 most likely registration districts are St James Westminster & Braintree but searching just those doesn't bring up anything that I can see as possibles.

I wouldn't put it past them not to have got married just to make my life even more difficult to be honest.

Offline dawnsh

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Re: George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #13 on: Monday 09 September 13 20:44 BST (UK) »
Hi again!
On FreeBMD there is a marriage between John James Coote and Ann Evans, Sep quarter 1880, St Olave 1d 360.

Also, I saw a Mary Ann Coote birth in Bethnal Gn, June quarter 1856, 1c 254. Maybe that is the registration name to look at.

Toffee   :)

From the marriage register St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey

August the something, there is no date, 1880 (the previous entry is August 2nd)

John James Coote, 40, widower, Butcher, of ? Place, Snows Fields, father William Coote, Carpenter

Ann Evans, 28, spinster, of 147 Snows Fields, father William Evans, Farmer

John James signed his name with a flourish, Ann made her mark
witnesses: John R? and Elizabeth Evans

Some of the Westminster baptisms have been transcribed and put online=, I had a look for your family but there are 2 other Coote families in the area at the same time, James & Eleanor (he's a sweep) and Charles & Charlotte (he's a plumber).

Remember that although civil registration started in 1837 it wasn't compulsory for births to be registered so there may not be births to find. The ones you identified earlier may belong to the other families.

Re marriages

26 April 1857 St Mary Magdalene Woolwich
James Coote, full age, bachelor, Porter of Callis Alley, father William Coote, labourer
(fathers occupation and James signature don't match 1880 entry)

27 Feb 1859, Bermondsey, Father = Mark, a dyer, signature doesn't match

28 July 1861, Chelsea, James is a baker as is his father James

I couldn't easily see the others, they may not be Anglican marriages.

Anyway hope this helps.

Dawn

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline toffeelightbulb

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Re: George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #14 on: Monday 09 September 13 21:53 BST (UK) »
Hi!

There is a George HENRY Coote registered in December quarter 1858 in Bethnal Green, 1c 269. There are however a couple of marriages in that area of George Henry Coote as well, so may not be him. You don't mention whether he was married before Lucy?



Hi! Not sure that the George Henry Coote in Bethnal Green is correct - on familysearch there is a census entry for 1871 that includes George H Coote, 12, born Bethnal Green. Parents are George and Charlotte. Think that might rule out that birth.

Toffee  :)

JENNINGS (-TEMPLE) - Kent/Msex/Berks; BENNETT - Dorset/Msex; ROSE - Notts/Lincs; MURRAY - Essex; METHLEY - Yorks; BIRCH - Kent; BRYDEN - Lancs/Stirl; MCGREGOR - Stirl/Perth; BROADLEY- Lancs; HUDSON - Mon/Durh; ROWLEY - Denb/Durh; PRICE - Mon; BERRY - Mon/Devon

Offline Lessa

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Re: George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 10 September 13 11:10 BST (UK) »
From the marriage register St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey

August the something, there is no date, 1880 (the previous entry is August 2nd)

John James Coote, 40, widower, Butcher, of ? Place, Snows Fields, father William Coote, Carpenter

Ann Evans, 28, spinster, of 147 Snows Fields, father William Evans, Farmer

John James signed his name with a flourish, Ann made her mark
witnesses: John R? and Elizabeth Evans

That's fantastic, thanks Dawn

Some of the Westminster baptisms have been transcribed and put online=, I had a look for your family but there are 2 other Coote families in the area at the same time, James & Eleanor (he's a sweep) and Charles & Charlotte (he's a plumber).

Remember that although civil registration started in 1837 it wasn't compulsory for births to be registered so there may not be births to find. The ones you identified earlier may belong to the other families.

Re marriages

26 April 1857 St Mary Magdalene Woolwich
James Coote, full age, bachelor, Porter of Callis Alley, father William Coote, labourer
(fathers occupation and James signature don't match 1880 entry)

27 Feb 1859, Bermondsey, Father = Mark, a dyer, signature doesn't match

28 July 1861, Chelsea, James is a baker as is his father James

I couldn't easily see the others, they may not be Anglican marriages.

Anyway hope this helps.

Dawn

I had forgotten that registration wasn't compulsory. I seem to recall that at one time if you purchased the certificates from the local Record Office they would only send them if the parents details matched. A quick google tells me this is no longer always the case, which is a shame.

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

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Re: George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 10 September 13 11:10 BST (UK) »
Hi!

There is a George HENRY Coote registered in December quarter 1858 in Bethnal Green, 1c 269. There are however a couple of marriages in that area of George Henry Coote as well, so may not be him. You don't mention whether he was married before Lucy?



Hi! Not sure that the George Henry Coote in Bethnal Green is correct - on familysearch there is a census entry for 1871 that includes George H Coote, 12, born Bethnal Green. Parents are George and Charlotte. Think that might rule out that birth.

Toffee  :)

That's useful to know, thanks toffee :)

Offline dawnsh

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Re: COMPLETED - George Coote - b.1859 - St James, London, England - my brick wall
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 10 September 13 11:38 BST (UK) »
You can still order from the General Register Office at Southport but as you make your application, you specify you don't know the reference numbers.

As you proceed with your order you specify the name of the child as you find it in the index or in this case force the issue and write John James, enter a date of birth as 01/01 and the year, the place of birth as the reg district you have found in the index and then specify the parents names. Obviously it would help if you knew what the mother's maiden name was but at this stage you don't.

If the entry doesn't match, you will get a refund and the GRO will search a year either side. The name could be John Joseph.

You can do the same with the local register offices, but you'll need to send a cheque each time. Some reg offices charge for searching even if the entry is not correct. Tends to be those offices that are really busy dealing with recent births and recent bereavements. The Wesminster reg office is always busy but it is worth trying John J in 1863 online with the GRO first stating his father to be John or John James.

Takes about 3 weeks to get a result but you get all of your 9.25 back if there isn't a match.

Or you can just take a 9.25 punt and order the cert for John J and it will be despatched within 5 working days.

Hope this helps

Dawn

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea