Weir

[Agnetta]

I am having one more go at finding info on  Matty/Martha Weir.She married ?? Craig,in Belfast,was widowed and married Joseph Black in 1858 in Malone Presbyterian Church,Belfast.She was bc 1834,and according to marriage cert,her father was Joseph Weir.Years of searching have produced absolutely nothing for Matty (on the marriage cert) Martha on registration of her last 2 children,or father Joseph.
On 1901 census Lambeg,Lisburn -  Joseph Black (b 1822 Kildress,Co Tyrone) is head of the household and Matty is not mentioned,so presumably she was dead.(I checked the homes of their children just in case she was in one of them on census night),but their is a boarder John Weir b 1835. He MAY have been a brother of Matty.
Can anybody throw any light on Joseph Weir,who he married,and did Matty have any siblings.Or find a marriage of Matty and ?? Craig.
Joseph Black and Matty had 4 daughters and one son,but only one daughter, Elizabeth,b 1869 and the son Joseph,b 1865 are definitely born to Matty.I cannot find the births of the other daughters. Jane 1857,Mary 1858 and Margaret 1863. (Jane may be ?? Craigs daughter)
Any help will be appreciated. Agnetta

[aghadowey]

Best to start to take things one step at a time.

On the 1858 marriage certificate for Joseph Black & Matty- is she listed as Matty Craig, widow? what's given as her residence? names of both witnesses?

Here's a link to Joseph Black in 1901-he is listed as married (your post didn't mention this):
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Derryaghey/Lambeg_North/997238

He's here in 1911- as a widower but has incorrectly put down 4 children/2 living:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Derryaghy/Lambeg__North/197560

Extracted births for children with parents Joseph Black & Martha Weir-
Joseph (1865) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5PY-WPD
Elizabeth (1867) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F51K-1Z7
Agnes (1873) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGC8-6SZ

You had Elizabeth born 1869 and didn't mention Agnes. Am wondering if Jane and Mary are both from Martha's previous marriage.

[scotmum]

Some research already recorded at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=215710.0. Hopefully posting this will avoid more folks duplicating ground already covered and let them concentrate on any potential new finds.

[aghadowey]

Thanks for posting the link, scotmum- would have saved me from wasting a lot of time this morning 

[Agnetta]

First of all - Aghadowey and Scotmum -I'm sorry I annoyed you with my post,and wasted your time. I did say I was having "one more go" at finding Matty etc.
 I don't think Agnes is part of  my family. Just coincidence that her father was Joseph Black.
The address of both Joseph and Matty was Glenmore.Matty was actually on the marriage cert as 'alias Craig'. Her father listed as Joseph Weir,I just presumed that she was the widow of ?? Craig.The witnesses were Margaret Weir and Roseanne Peacock.They may have been her sisters,but since I can't find Joseph Weir's marriage,I don't know if they are his children.(Searching Margaret Weir and Rose,possibly nee Weir,produced nothing either)
I didn't mention Joseph Black on 1901 census,because I 'm not sure it is MY Joseph Black b 1865
Family info says Jane was Matty's daughter,and the others are to Joseph Black.
I've been looking for these people for so long,(and from Australia it is hard) I thought I'd give it one more go,to see if anybody else was researching Weirs or Blacks.
Again,my apologies for wasting your time. Agnetta.

[aghadowey]

If you'd even posted a link to the earlier topic it would have meant less searching for information that had already been looked at.

Really don't understand this comment "I don't think Agnes is part of  my family. Just coincidence that her father was Joseph Black." I included a link to extracted birth record because her father was Joseph Black AND her mother was Martha Weir.

Also, "I didn't mention Joseph Black on 1901 census,because I 'm not sure it is MY Joseph Black b 1865." Elizabeth McDowell and family are in the same household- is Elizabeth not Joseph's daughter? Same family are in the 1911 census.

And "The witnesses were Margaret Weir and Roseanne Peacock.They may have been her sisters,but since I can't find Joseph Weir's marriage,I don't know if they are his children." Do you mean you suspect there is a chance that Margaret Weir and Roseanne Peacock are Joseph's children? According to the 1901 census Joseph was born c1825 making him about 33 when he married Martha which means any children from an earlier relationship would have been extremely unlikely to have been witnesses in 1858. Is Joseph listed as a widower on the 1858 marriage?

[Agnetta]

How did this get so mixed up? Margaret Weir and Rose Peacock were Matty's sisters,possibly.
Joseph Black was a bachelor.(confusion re his birth year - 1822,1825,1831,on various sources.He was over 90 when he died in 1914,so 1822 may have been right)
Agnes Black was born Co Down to Joseph Black and Martha ??,but Joseph Black and Matty Weir/Craig,were never in co Down.They lived their entire lives in Lambeg,in the same house,and all the children were born there(with the possible exception of Jane),including my mother and me.
Joseph Black b 1865,was Joseph Black and Matty Weir/Craig's only son,brother of my grandmother Elizabeth 1867.I thought this was who you were referring to,on the census.(in fact,nothing more can be found on this man,other than an elderly relative saying he had gone to Glasgow as a very young man)
Matty Weir/Craig's father was Joseph Weir,and my searching never found a Margaret or Rose born to a Joseph Weir,but of course that doesn't mean that there wern't,just that I never found them.
I can't believe,or understand, how this got so mixed up,so I think we'll just leave it here, and if I find anything more,well and good,if not,so be it.
Thank you for your efforts so far. Agnetta.

[aghadowey]

Thank you for explaining about Matty's sisters, etc. but I think you are still confused.

Agnes Black was the daughter of Joseph Black and Martha Weir and was born in COUNTY ANTRIM not County Down as it clearly says on the link I posted earlier- if you get her actual birth certificate you will see the full details such as place of birth, etc.
Agnes (1873) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGC8-6SZ

Regarding Joseph's age- people were not so concerned with exact dates so it's not uncommon to get variations. The informant for his death certificate probably didn't know exactly how old he was as indeed Joseph might not have been sure about his own exact date of birth.

[Agnetta]

Thank you Aghadowey - I can't argue with that. So my mother was called for her Aunt Agnes.
Given that so few of them could read or write,(Elizabeth 1867 couldn't) let alone remember birth years,I know getting within 5 years of it is pretty good.
Thanks again. Agnetta