Lydia Southgate - born Holloway/Islington 1875

[hatofthecat]

I've been searching the street names....

There is an Arber Place rather than Street listed in 1841 census for Mile End Old Town but I've not found it in 1871 census yet (the roll up of districts etc. is different which doesn't help), or anywhere else. 

I did also try Amber Street but that was just south east of Stratford station.

I don't have a copy Lydia's will as yet.  The registration district was Llandudno but I don't know which modern registry this would be held, London ??    http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/probate-registries     

I also had a look a passenger lists in case William had skipped the country but nothing found as yet.  Having so little detail on him up front makes finding him all the harder etc.

[avm228]

In 1891 the streets shown on the 1868 map as Arbour St West and Arbour St are enumerated respectively as West Arbor St (starts at RG12 piece 303 folio 56 page 23) and East Arbor St (starts at RG12 piece 303 folio 59 page 29). The "Arbour" spelling is used for Arbour Square earlier in the same schedule: starting at RG12 piece 303 folio 48 page 8.

It may be possible to trace some of the older residents to the earlier censuses.

[avm228]

I don't have a copy Lydia's will as yet.  The registration district was Llandudno but I don't know which modern registry this would be held, London ??    http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/probate-registries     

It was Llandudno in 1941 because the registry was evacuated there for the war.  The records are  accessible centrally - using the probate calendar details you already have, you can order copies in person at First Avenue House (London) or any District Probate Registry and some Sub-Registries.

Or you can complete form PA1S and send it to:

Postal Searches and Copies Department
Leeds District Probate Registry
York House
York Place
Leeds
LS1 2BA

see www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills.

[avm228]

Tracing then back to 1881, Arbour St East (which was plain Arbour St on the 1868 map) begins at RG11 piece 475 folio 71 page 33.

[Ladyhawk]

I don’t know if this William has anything to do with the William Flood you are looking for

 just posting because of this William's  occupation on the 1861 census - haven't come across another  William Flood with occupation Cheesemonger 

This William born 1830 Kent and  married 1855 Kent  name on same page Maria Elizabeth SALMON

Flood children:-
William Coller b1857 Hoxton Middx
Thomas John b1861 West Ham
John J b1864 Stratford Essex
Sarah M b1866 Stratford Essex

1861 RG 9; Piece: 1057; Folio: 166; Page: 10
Romford Rd Upton Place 12
William T R Flood age 31 Chatham Kent  occ  Grocer & Cheesemonger
Wife Maria E, Children William C (Coller) & Thomas J (John

(in 1880 son William Coller  occ Pawnbroker father William occ. Grocer
address 163 Fairfoot Rd married Mary Jane Godfrey)

1871 RG10; Piece: 571; Folio: 121; Page: 20
163 Fairfoot Road
Williams occ Grocer Porter
additions to family John J 7 & Sarah M age 5

1881 RG11; Piece: 497; Folio: 74; Page: 25
163 Fairfoot Rd
Williams occ. Warehouseman

1891 RG12; Piece: 1344; Folio: 36; Page: 29
42 Etchingham Rd
Wiiliam occ Grocers Warehouseman & family

1901 RG13; Piece: 1612; Folio: 48; Page: 36
42 Etchingham Rd
Williams occ Retired Grocer & family

don't know about old maps but todays route planner http://www.rac.co.uk/route-planner/ shows
Fairfoot Road (London Borough of Tower Hamlet) is 1.7 miles on foot to
East Arbour Street, West Arbour Street & Arbour Square (London borough of Tower Hamlet) -  if this is your man not exactly living close to each other

William Theophilus Roger Flood
Christening Date:   27 Jan 1830 Chatham, Kent, England
Father Thomas Flood Mother Ann Mary

William Theophilus R Flood age 76
Date of Registration:   Apr-May-Jun 1906
Registration District:   St Olave Bermondsey
Volume:   1d Page:   92


 

[avm228]

Oooh that's an intriguing find, Ladyhawk

Given the detail from Emma's 1873 birth that her father William was a cheesemonger's assistant, one possibility Pete may want to bear in mind is that it was the younger William, William Coller Flood, who fathered Lydia's children in the 1870s whilst working in his father's business. He might then have drawn a line under all that and got a new job, wife and family when he married Mary Jane Godfrey on 7 September 1880 (I wonder what Lydia's date of admission to the workhouse was?).

William Coller Flood was a "clerk" in 1871, living with his parents, so what I've surmised would likely be impossible to prove, even if true (though I suppose it's possible his middle name might appear on one of the children's birth registrations).

[hatofthecat]

Wow, you folks have been busy 

Only just looked at your replies as was happily printing out will request forms and realised last Family Tree synch with Ancestry had gone very wrong and thought my tree had lost 9 months work    luckily it looks like it was just one old red herring branch at top that had somehow got reattached      Bit of panic that one 

On workhouse I have a page headed "Removals From Poplar Union"  1881

Date of order: 4 Mar 1881
Name: Lydia Southgate + 3 children
Union or Parish: Tendring
Date Paid: 10 Aug 1881
Observations: Not passed [I assume based on ditto type squiggle and this being on previous line]

I've ordered the daughter Lydia's birth certificate yesterday, so as said hopefully that will give something more on father William.  William Coller Flood could make some sense as being a similar age but only 15 or 16      ...address on birth certificate might help to see if they were living with his parents or hers maybe.

Pete
 

[Ladyhawk]

 I have Lydia Southgate living in Mile End as a 16 year old servant in 1871 census so that ties in with daughter Emma being born there.

So from the 1871 census Lydia age 16 was living in DEMPSEY STREET

it looks as if DS is no longer there but was located between  JUBILEE STREET and JAMAICA STREET
see link http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4280

JS & JS are not far from East Arbour Street - see the route planner,
but are some distance  from Fairfoot Road (where the Flood's were living 1871/1881)

Hopefully Lydia's b/c might reveal all

[avm228]

Dempsey Street was indeed near Arbour St, as shown on the 1868 map: http://london1868.com/weller46.htm (scroll down for enlarged section). Both came off Charles St, north of Commercial Rd.

As Ladyhawk says, Fairfoot Rd was some distance away (to the north-east).  Although we have that as a residential address for the Floods we don't know where the grocery/cheese shop was.  Unfortunately there is no match for a William Flood in the 1874 Post Office Directory for Middlesex, searchable at www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp.