Butler, Leicester

[Ozdais]

In the early 1800s there were two Butler Chemists in Leicester. One, Thomas Edward, who started in Sanvey Gate before moving to High Street, the other John (my direct line), who started in Wharf Street before moving to Belgrave Gate, and other locations (John died young in 1834). Possible they could be linked  , tho also possible any similarities could just be coincidence  !!

Thomas Edward's father was a Thomas, John's was Henry (who married Elizabeth Fielding, St Martin's, 1799). Henry was a Cordwainer at various times in Cank Street, High Street and Highcross Street. In Leicester Directory 1827 there is a Thomas Butler, Boot and Shoemaker, in Cank Street - had wondered if he was a brother to Henry, but now wonder if he was a father, or even a misprint as the line below is Thomas Butler, Victualler, (Hare) Northgate-Street.

I know from family bible that Henry's mother was a Margaret who died in 1807 aged 75. From 1841, Henry was born c. 1769 in Leicestershire. Henry died in 1849. All suggestions for where to look for Henry's father/place of birth welcome. Possible the family were non-conformists. John baptised by total immersion at St Martin's as an adult. His brother, Thomas Henry, baptised as an adult prior to becoming a Schoolmaster in Syston.

Thanks for any suggestions folks more expert than me can offer!!

[ciderdrinker]

Good Afternoon
Thomas Edward Butler married Frances Hind 6,7,1841 at the baptist chapel Leicester.,so that side should be Baptists.However he was baptised age 12 at the Great Presbyterian Meeting  22.5.1831 (born 3.9.1819)to Thomas and Sarah Butler.As was his sister Frances Elizabeth born 23.8.1815 and Mary Ann born 24.5.1811.Parents from parish of All Saints.
Looking at the dates I think Henry may have been Thomas Snr's brother rather than father.
Henry Butler of Leicester cordwainer took on an apprentice John Forsbery 14.1.1803 so he must have been there then.Could there be records of the guild of shoemakers that could help,naming Henry's father when he was apprenticed?How about settlement certificates for Leicester ,have they survived?
I do think both Butler's where non-conformists as you said,I'm not sure what 's available for Leicestershire.
Margaret's death in 1807 ,do you know where she was buried ?If you can find her parish from that,that's probably where they came from.The National Burial index,deceased online or Find a grave websites could all help.I've tried Familysearch and Free reg but no luck.
Have you tried looking at Wills in Leicestershire perhaps naming a sons Thomas or Henry.I know it's a long trawl.
Ciderdrinker

[Ozdais]

Thanks for your reply Ciderdrinker.

Have been working on the hunch that Henry and Thomas Senior were brothers – both families were in the habit of using two Christian names, John’s sons were Edward Henry and John Thomas.

Hadn’t realised the Guild of Shoemakers might have records like that, so will follow that line. Haven’t heard of Settlement Certificates – assume my best starting point there is the record office?

Family bible sadly doesn’t tell me where Margaret was buried, only that she died about “one oclock noon Feb 16”, haven’t found a record of her burial yet but will keep looking.

I did look at Butler wills before I knew about Margaret, but will revisit those with son’s names in mind.

On old familysearch I did find a possible family in Coleorton (mother Margaret, father William, sons Henry c. 1769 and Thomas c. 1771, amongst others, so plan to investigate them further.

There has been some paperwork done that suggests that Thomas Edward’s line stems from a Peter/Piers Butler from Ireland, via Shepshed, so possible that there’s no connection between the two lines, yet when we look at photos of living descendants of both lines, the similarities are uncanny!! Am also exploring the dna route, but would obviously want to back any findings up with records if at all possible.

Many thanks for your suggestions, you’ve given me lots of ideas. 

[willsy]

There is an article about Thomas Henry in the paper 1844 to do with schooling and mentions the free school/Baptist church and Henry's death is there aged 80. Might be another avenue to look at for you

[Ozdais]

Thanks Willsy, did have a trawl of newspapers a while back, but sounds like it might be time to revisit them!! 

[Ozdais]

Hmmm... Record Office have no relevant Settlement Certificates/Wills, haven't yet managed to track down records from Guild of Shoemakers or Margaret's burial place.

Did find some interesting stuff about later members of the family - MI for Henry's son John who died 1834 - his HEADSTONE was buried in the reorganisation of the cathedral yard in the early 1930s, possible Henry and Elizabeth's memorial went the same way in a similar reorganisation in the late 1890s - interesting to read the letters of protest about the 1930s reorganisation. Also found Leicestershire and Rutland Lunatic Asylum records for Henry's great grandson John Norton Butler - a sad tale which may have turned out differently with the benefit of modern medicine, but it also showed the devotion of JNB's father Edward Henry Butler who was a frequent visitor.

DNA result doesn't rule out a link with Thomas Edward Butler, but it doesn't rule it in either, so for now will concentrate on trying to find out more about Henry's Leics. birthplace/parents c. 1769.

Back to the Record Office methinks!! 

[willsy]

There's only one Margaret listed from the marriages I have, matching your ref

Coleorton   26-May   1754   Banns   
William   Butler   Of this parish            
Margaret   King   Bagworth      Spin

Did find this one
Leicester, All Saints   24-Dec   1807   Banns   
Thomas   Butler  Of this parish
Sarah    Cuthbert   Of this parish

[Ozdais]

Thanks Willsy - that's certainly a possible for "my" Margaret - key I guess is to find her death - tho a birth for a Margaret King in the Bagworth area c. 1732 would also add weight to the theory that this could be the right family - William appears to be a Collier, and Henry was a Cordwainer, which in my mind is the right "sort" of family. If it does turn out that this is right I think it would weaken the theory that there could be a link with the other chemist line.

The Butler - Cuthbert marriage at All Saints doesn't ring any bells, but that doesn't mean there's not a link - Henry Butler worked in the All Saints area - there were other Butlers around in Leicester at the time - quite a common name methinks so possible they are not all linked.

Thanks for your help - will keep digging!! 

[Ozdais]

All things come to those who wait!! :-)

Thanks to Find My Past going into Leicestershire Record Office, I now know that "Marget Butler", born 1732, of Coleorton, was buried in Ravenstone 19 Feb 1807 - so my Henry Butler WAS born in Coleorton in 1769!!

Now if only I could tell " Mike from Leicester".....