Author Topic: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry  (Read 12770 times)

Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 27 November 14 18:34 GMT (UK) »
Monica

As you can see I am trying to find a description of this William Sharp, at least his age, so I can then work out which William Sharp it was who was the father. I have already discovered that one of them got married soon after the birth of William McGregor but he and his wife didn't have any children at all.

Tom

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Offline MonicaL

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 27 November 14 19:27 GMT (UK) »
The William Sharp you mention, is the one I would have my money on...given his occupation and location.

How to firm it up?

Reason I asked (for clues) as to what occupation showed for William Sharp Snr in his son's registrations. This is all you will have for later years, and then trying to connect back.

What you have found on the paternity documentation for William Snr is pretty standard really. A snapshot in time really  :-\

Monica
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Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 27 November 14 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica,

Unfortunately the birth record of William Mcgregor does not show the occupation of William Sharp, it does show the occupation of his mother Maggie McGregor, as domestic servant. I have read the article on the National Archives of Scotland now though, so now I think the sandpit itself was owned by Robert George Wardlaw Ramsay of Tillicoultry House, which I see from the 1891 map was just below the house. So the Wardlaw Ramsey's owned the sand pit, but John Davie, a plasterer of Alloa was the tenant, so he paid a rent to Wardlaw Ramsey. Now a plasterer might need sand for his  occupation. I have found John Davie, a plasterer, living in Viewfield Place, Alloa in the 1891 Census.
So it's quite likely that a plasterer like John Davie might well employ people at the sand pit like William Sharp.

In the 1891 Census, there is William born 1873 is at home in 4, Paton Street, Tillicoultry living with his mother, Elizabeth, again father John is not shown on the census. Also at home is his brother Thomas & sister Janet. His mother is working as a picker of a clothing factory.
 Also in 4 Paton Street, in the same 1891 Census is another William Sharp, born 1859, Dollar, married to Isabella. They have no children, and in 1901 they still have no children. It would seem that this William is a relation of the Sharp family, who reside at this address.

You can see why I need that description.

John



Offline MonicaL

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #21 on: Friday 28 November 14 14:05 GMT (UK) »
So these are the Sharps you mention, with mother Elizabeth that you have in the censuses - http://records.ancestry.co.uk/john_sharp_records.ashx?pid=49830968  There are a number of trees for this line on ancestry such as this one (if you can access via a subs or via a library access) http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/60036866/person/42053163983 

Thinking specifically about dates. William McGregor/Sharp was born 4 January 1888. Assuming full term for pregnancy, Maggie and William Sharp must have been 'together' c. March 1887. The William Sharp, son of John S and Elizabeth Hutton was born in July 1873 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYTY-KL5, so would have been 13 when baby was being made  :-\ Happens/happened, but pretty unusual, even today.

I do not think a boy of this age would have been referred to, as you have in the documents, as 'William Sharp of Sandhole' and being asked at that young age to make the sort of financial contribution you have found in the papers regarding paternity...

Can I ask, has anyone looked at the detail of that 1888 marriage for William Sharp to Isabella to check where this William was living at the time of his marriage?

One other possible check would be to have a look at the valuation rolls for the area to see who showed there as tenants or occupiers in the period of 1886-88. This check can only be done in person in the locality at a main reference library (don't think that is practical for you though  :-\). The 1885 valuation rolls are now available online at Scotlands People (other years too). Voters Rolls?

You have confirmed that a John Davie was the tenant of the sandpit. In what years? You mention that you have him in 1891 living at Viewfield Place, Alloa.

William McGregor/Sharp seemed to go throughout his life under the surname of McGregor. Did he marry in the Massachusetts? Guess there was no mention of his father on his marriage and/or death cert?

Monica
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Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #22 on: Friday 28 November 14 19:37 GMT (UK) »
MonicaL

 On 16th June, 1888, at the Manse Office, after Banns, according to the form of the Church of Scotland, William Sharp, a coachman, bachelor, aged 30 years, son of William Sharp, Labourer & his wife Betsy formerly Thomson married Isabella Beveridge, 31 years, spinster, daughter of David Beveridge, a farm servant & his wife Isabella Beveridge, formerly Henderson. They are married by Stepander Bayern, Minister of Alloa, in presence of one other & William Beveridge-registered 19 June.

In 1891:   4, Paton St., 1 house,
 William Sharp, head, marr, 32, Justiseman at Mine, employed, born Tillicoultry
Isabella Sharp, wife, marr, 38, born Tillicoultry.

In 1901, William & Isabella Sharp are living in Devonside, Tillicoultry, married but Childless, William is a carter.

There are other co-incidences too with Maggie McGregor too which I followed up.

Maggie Mcgregor was the daughter of David McGregor and Christina Coventry. She was born in 1869 in Milnathort, Kinrosshire.  In 1891, having had a son born in 1888, she leaves him at home with her parents, and goes to work at a house in Milnathort inhabited by a May Henderson & her grandmother Janet Wright.
This is the household:
Registration number:   463, Registration District: Orwell, Civil Parish:   Orwell
Town:   Milnathort, County:   Kinross, Address: Mayfield New Rd
May Henderson   20, bn abt 1871, Springburn, Lanarkshire, Living on Private Means

Janet Wright   85, bn 1806, Sewell, Kinrosshire, Grandmother to May Henderson, Annuitant
Jeanie Dempston   35, Ladies Companion
Jeanie Mackie   15, Cook.
Maggie McGregor, age 21, domestic servant
born:   Milnathort, Kinross Shire -
Maggie McGregor

The same household in 1881, of course Maggie isnít there, but the household consists of:
Janet Wright, 75, born Orwell, Kinrosshire, Living on interest of invested money.
 May Henderson, 10 years bn. Glasgow, Lanarkshire,
Ellen Henderson, 8, bn. Glasgow, (granddaughter of Janet Wright)
Grace Coventry, 23, bn. Bigton, Sketland, Governess
Ann Anderson, local girl, cook,
Magdalene Beveridge, 16, bn Milnathort, Cook/nurse
Address:   Mayfield Whitehorn New Rd

So you see the surname Henderson crops up again with the name Beveridge as well. In answer to your previous question William McGregor never did learn the identity of his father. Much of the time he stays with his grandfather rather than his mother who eventually married a man called John Taylor. You are also right that A******y has several sharp trees, at least two of whom are mine. William Mcgregor eventually emigrated to USA and I have been in touch with his relatives there too, who are also trying to find the father of William. Certainly the older Sharp seems the most likely, but that's as far as it goes, without a description we still don't know.

Tom

Offline MonicaL

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #23 on: Friday 28 November 14 19:57 GMT (UK) »
Know you have obsessed on this all, we can all see from your info. Such a hard search you have here. With this type of research, you only really have a couple of hard facts to work from on the father's side. You can only just hope for a lucky break on the info along the way...

Have to admit I had a different family in my head for William Sharp who married Isabella in 1888. His age is later years was certainly much lighter which confuses, also his place of birth differs. His occupation from his marriage in 1888 certainly has no bearing to what he was doing by the time of the 1891 census does it.

Frustration, with you  :'(

Monica
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Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #24 on: Friday 28 November 14 20:05 GMT (UK) »
MonicaL

Thanks for your interest-it's been good to visit the subject again.

Tom