Author Topic: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families  (Read 37565 times)

Offline helvissa

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 09 November 13 21:48 GMT (UK) »
Just a quick one, but... found the Mansfield/Tiffin marriage in the second register I looked at (All Sts, inc. people from St Botolphs).

29 Oct 1789, by licence
James Mansfield, bachelor of St James
Mary Tiffin, spinster of St Botolph's
Witnesses: John May, Wm Wootton

So how the 1789 will ties in, I don't know (if it's his father's). Perhaps he had other children who had died by then, hence bequests to the grandchildren?

I've had a quick look through the Nunn connection and found a very confusing number of men called John Nunn all appearing the same will. But it appears that Eliza Waynman Mansfield married John Nunn, who died between 1825 and 1830. They had only one child (possibly Eliza Mansfield Beeton Nunn in 1823). John's dad was called John Nunn, and he'd died before 1825. And John's grandad was also called John Nunn, and he died abt 1830. This Nunn family owned a heck of a lot of property in Guildhall St in Bury St Ed's. This info is from John senr senr's will - he leaves money to Eliza Nunn, widow of his grandson John Nunn (in a codicil - the original will was written in 1825, and because grandson John had died afterwards, he changed it to cover Eliza. He says that John & Eliza have only one child "who is now amply provided for"). What made my hair stand on end was the appearance of John senr senr's daughter, Susan - who was married to someone called (oh yes, you guessed it...) Edward Cooper. One of the Polstead/Boxford Coopers perhaps?

I do see what you mean - there is so much enthusiastic witnessing of each other's marriages, that it does suggest quite a strong connection. I did the Family Tree DNA test recently and I'd quite like to find some Cooper people to see if we can work out a connection that way (although it's probably too far back to be any use, but then again, they're all related to each other about 10 times over so maybe not!).

I saw that 1821 Mansfield will too and saw the Stockwell St chapel connection with the Charles Heath family. Charles got about too - engraving, weaving, making coins with pictures of looms on.... kept me entertained even if he's not connected! But then again, the 1821 James Mansfield might be a cousin of our James, perhaps... erm... let's see what the transcriptions CD say. Also this book about Colchester might be useful if there's a good name index in the back.

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 09 November 13 23:39 GMT (UK) »
Edward Cooper married Susan Nunn at Nowton, Suffolk on 6 May 1802 according to Suffolk Marriage Index.  He's listed as being from Cavenham on the marriage.  Memorial Inscriptions for West Stow, Suffolk, available via archive.org indicate he was probably Edward Forty Cooper because they have the inscription - "Edward Forty Cooper of Bury St. Edmunds, late of Cavenham in the County of Suffolk, who [died] Dec. 8, 1826, in the 48th year of his age.  Susannah his wife, who [died] June 3, 1827, in the 47th year of her age."

IGI has a baptism for an Edward Torty Cooper at Culford in 1779.  As far as I am aware, there is no connection between the Polstead/Boxford Coopers and a family of the same name at Culford or Cavenham.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 10 November 13 00:09 GMT (UK) »
You've probably spotted this but Eliza Waynman Nunn widow married Samuel Manthorpe at St Botolph Aldersgate on 1 Oct 1834.  Unfortunately all the witnesses are Manthorpes. ::)

On the 1851 Census they are in Colchester St Nicholas, she is listed as born c1802 in Colchester.

That 1841 Census entry for James and Sarah Mansfield in the same parish now looks more interesting.  Sarah is on her own in 1851 listed as born Colchester c1775, assuming that it's the same Sarah Mansfield. 
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 10 November 13 00:30 GMT (UK) »
Doesn't look like James Mansfield's second wife was a Waynman, this would appear to be the marriage as his signature looks very like the one on the marriage to Mary Tiffin:

Colchester St Nicholas
4 March 1800
James Mansfield of the parish of St Botolphs, widower, and Sarah Farran of this parish, spinster, by licence
Witnesses are Eliza Hurrall, Harriet Farran, Frances Bailey?

I suppose it's possible that Sarah's mother was a Waynman?

(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day


Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 10 November 13 00:38 GMT (UK) »
Colchester St Runwald
6 Oct 1776 - Sarah daughter of Samuel and Sarah Farren
19 Aug 1781 - Samuel Waynman son of Samuel and Sarah Farran
15 Aug 1784 - Harriet daughter of Samuel and Sarah Farran

Colchester St Mary St Mary at the Walls
25 Dec 1775
Samuel Farran and Sarah Waynman, both single, both of this parish, by licence
Witnesses - Jas Waynman and Mary Farran

Definately looks like Jas rather than a T for the witnesses' name, but they're rather low resolution unfortunately.  And the W for Waynman isn't like Thomas' on his marriage in 1782 although obviously the Farrans were in St Runwald.  William Waynman was a widower when he married Sarah Cooper, so I suppose it's possible that the James could be a son from the first marriage?

Found this via google to http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/annapizzey/data/d50.htm

James Waynman appears to have been a solicitor and was articled in 1766, buried at St Botolphs in 1792 - see http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wt0/.  The signature on his marriage at Colchester All Saints in Feb 1777 is the same as the witness to Sarah's 1775 marriage.  His widow is likely to be the Elizabeth Waynman who left a Will probated in 1815.  Available from Essex RO but not yet digitised.

Tends to make me think he was perhaps witnessing his half sister's marriage in 1775. ;)

William Waynman of Manningtree was apprenticed to Samuel Browne, perukemaker, in 1729.  It lists his father as James.  Sarah Cooper's husband obviously was from Manningtree and assuming that is the same William, you would have expected him to have had a son James after his father.

I wonder which William Waynman is the one born Colchester in Nottingham dying in 1860?  The age would suggest Thomas' son as the son of James wasn't born until 1785 but that William was alive according to the website in 1815 when his mother's Will was proven.  Nottingham William appears to have remarried in 1851 so that certificate would confirm things as I can't find it on any of the usual sites.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 10 November 13 00:49 GMT (UK) »
Interestingy in light of the 1841 Census entry:

Witham St Nicholas
4 Feb 1801
William Bunnell of Witham widower and Sarah Farran of Colchester St Nicholas widow, by licence
Witnesses - John Nunn and William Constable

The Sarah signature is quite similar to the 1775 marriage and there's a John Nunn again.

Sarah Bunnell widow left a PCC Will in 1842, mentions her daughters Sarah wife of James Mansfield and Harriet wife of Roger Nunn of Colchester.

Colchester St Mary at the Walls
9 Jun 1799 Samuel Farran aged 45 years
4 March 1842 Sarah Bunnell of Colchester St Nicholas aged 87 years

Tends to make you think she was probably buried with Samuel. 

Colchester St Nicholas
30 May 1809
Roger Nunn of St Botolphs, widower, and Harriet Farran of this parish, spinster, by licence
Witnesses - Sarah Mansfield, Elizabeth Nunn

This is Roger's first marriage and Harriet was a witness:

Colchester St Nicholas
21 May 1806
Roger Nunn of this parish batchelor and Elizabeth Bunnell of this parish spinster, by licence
Witnesses - Harriet Farran, Phillis Nunn, William Bunnell

Looks like Elizabeth was William Bunnell's daughter by his previous marriage and therefore Sarah Waynman's step daughter and Harriet's step sister.

Elizabeth died in 1808 and was buried at Colchester St Mary at the Wall.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline helvissa

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 10 November 13 18:08 GMT (UK) »
Wow, that's an amazing quantity of info - brilliant! I've just been adding it all into my tree.

I forgot to mention - there's another James Mansfield in the 1841 Colchester census, but I think the presence of Sarah Bunnell would make it 'our' James in the first example I found.

What I know about William Waynman, who married Sarah Cooper/Rayner:

Baptised 31 Aug 1713 in Manningtree, son of James Waynman and Mary (née Borham). James and Mary married on 30th Sep 1712 at Mistley, by licence (ERO don't have the licence allegation, sadly). William had siblings: Anna (baptised 1714 in Manningtree, and is a married woman with the surname Garwood in her father's will, but husband's first name not given), John (baptised Manningtree 1723) and Mary. On 23 Aug 1729, William Waynman son of James was apprenticed as a perukemaker to Samuel Browne of Colchester (as you've found). James ran The Thorn public house in Mistley, and when he wrote his will in 1750, he was a victualler in Harwich.

At some point, William married a woman called Eliza, and they had (at least) one child, baptised 13 Aug 1741 in Manningtree, called Eliza. I think this is the same Eliza Waynman who married William Winch in Fingringhoe on 5th March 1765.

As we know, William Waynman, widower of Manningtree, married Sarah Rayner, widow, at Fingringhoe in 1753. They have three children baptised in Manningtree:

Thomas - baptised 19 Feb 1755, married Mary Marsden in Colchester, dies in 1796 (his "good friend" John Whitaker Cooper is one of his executors. He also mentions that he has two children: William and Sarah. Also in this will, he mentions some property where someone called Miss Duvall is living - this is a surname I've seen before - one of the witnesses to the Cooper/Whitaker marriage in Ramsey is John Davall).

Sarah - baptised 4 June 1756. I would say her age is extra evidence that she is Sarah, wife of Samuel Farran, and then William Bunnell, mother of James Mansfield's second wife after the death of Mary (née Tiffin). (no wonder Ann Taylor was surprised with them all calling each other "cousin"!).

James - baptised 27 Dec 1758 in Ramsey, but there is a burial in Ramsey on 29 Jan 1759, for James son of William & Sarah Waynman - so quite who James Waynman, the Colchester lawman is, I don't know! (could he be a younger brother of William Waynman, rather than a son? If he was articled in 1766 - or perhaps the son of William's brother, John? How old were people when they were articled?).

William appears in this bulletin from the East Anglia Postal History Study Circle, as the person who ran Manningtree Post Office, from 1741 to 1764.

A piece in the Ipswich Journal in 1761 mentions William Waynman of South Hall, Ramsey (which I think the Woodruffes or Woodthorpes eventually lived in) as a contact for information about poachers.

He died in 1762 (so either he's not the same fellow running the Post Office, or the date is slightly off, or perhaps his widow and or sons continued it for a couple of years) - there is a burial in Ramsey on 29 Oct for  "William Waynman and his son" - it doesn't say which son. In 1763 there are two pieces in the Ipswich Journal, asking that anyone with outstanding debts owed to William approach Thomas Cooper jnr of Fingringhoe (his widow's brother, presumably). Thomas is William's executor, and William is described as being "late of Ramsey, farmer." I can't find a will so perhaps William and his nameless son with whom he was buried died in an accident together (but that usually gets a mention in PRs) or both passed away suddenly of an infectious illness, as wasn't uncommon back then, of course.

Apols if you already knew that!

Nottingham William does sound like a strand worth investigating, definitely.


Offline helvissa

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 10 November 13 18:28 GMT (UK) »
Going back to Edward Wade & Elizabeth Cardinal - the link to all this could be through Elizabeth. What if, somewhere, there's a Cardinal/Whitaker marriage?

Their eldest son, William, was baptised as just plain ol' William, but when he appears in Tendring as a wheelwright, he's William Cardinal Wade in the registers, and even on his grave stone and on his will. I had been looking for my Grandma's family in Tendring, so when I was suddenly faced with a Cardinal Wade I thought - here we go! There was a fairly wealthy Cardinal family in Tendring at the time, so to begin with I thought maybe the Wades were related to them - hence William being in Tendring. But after looking at some Cardinal wills, and not being able to see a relationship, I thought maybe William was being a bit cheeky and thought he'd get some caché by using his mother's maiden name as his middle name as it just happened to be the same as one of the local families of note. I seem to remember that the Cardinals appear in the "visitations" as well, so they were well-heeled.

But now I'm wondering if there's any connection between the Coopers/Whitakers/Tiffins/Waynmans and the Cardinals? I haven't seen anything yet, though, but perhaps...... this is a different story!

Just looked back to the will of Isabell Cardinal of Tendring on my website, and there's a daughter called Elizabeth who married John Garwood of Frating - there's a mystery Garwood in the Waynman tree. Hmmm....

Incidentally, I've just put the will of Thomas Tiffin of Layer-de-la-Haye on there too - it looks like the Tiffins originated from around Earls Colne, and in 1742, his son, John, was in Earls Colne and inherited most of his property. It's possible that Thomas is the grandfather of John (who married Sarah Whitaker) and Charles (who married Mary Rayner). They're not mentioned in the will but they could be the sons of Thomas' son John. I'm going to go and delve about in the Earls Colne database to see if I can find anything... *determined face*

Offline helvissa

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Re: Whittaker - Fingringhoe & Layer-de-la-Haye, Wade, Cooper & other families
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 10 November 13 19:12 GMT (UK) »
From the Earls Colne database:

Will of John Tiffin of Earls Colne, 1752
in the name of god amen I Jn Tiffin of Earls Colne in the county of Essex yeoman being sick of body but of sound mind and memory thanks be to god for the same do make this my last will and testament in manner following and first I give and devise all my lands tenements and hereditaments whatsoever and wheresoever as well freehold as copyhold and of whatsoever manner or manners they be holden unto my loving wife Sarah Tiffin and her heirs to be by her sold and the money arising therefrom after discharging the mortgages therefrom if any be disposed on in such manner as she shall think proper for the good of my younger children also I give and bequeath my lease of the farm I now dwell in and all other my personal estate whatsoever and whatsoever unto my loving wife Sarah Tiffin subject nevertheless to my just debts funeral charges and proving this my will and of this my will I do appoint my said loving wife Sarah Tiffin whole and sole executrix in witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 30.4.1752 Jn Tiffin signed sealed and declared by the testator Jn Tiffin to be his last will and testament in the presence of us who at his request and in his presence set our hands as witnessed thereto Rich Wale mark Mary Moss Wm Leach

Will of Sarah Tiffin of Earls Colne, 1771
the last will and testament of Sarah Tiffin of Earls Colne in the county of Essex widow first I give unto my son Jn Tiffin the sum of one guinea also I give unto my son Wm Tiffin 15li also I give unto my son Phil Tiffin 25li also I give unto my son Jas Tiffin the sum of 20li also I give unto my (sic) Chas Tiffin the sum of one guinea also I give unto my daughter Sarah the wife of Jn Burles the sum of 20li and all my wearing apparel of all sorts and my two gold rings all my legacies as above disposed of to be paid by my executors within one year after my decease all the rest and residue of my estate wheresoever and whatsoever whether real or personal I give unto my son Robt Tiffin and his heirs forever he first paying off all my just debts and legacies funeral charges and the proving of this my will and I do nominate constitute and appoint my son Robt Tiffin sole executor of this my last will and testament in witness whereof I the said Sarah Tiffin the testator have hereunto set my hand and seal this 4.7.1771 the mark of Sarah Tiffin signed sealed published and declared by the testator as and for her last will and testament in the presence of us as witnessed thereunto in her presence and in the presence each other of us Thos Scillitoe Jas Moul Ab Totman

The database has this baptism: Chas Tiffin son of Jn Tiffin and Sarah Tiffin christened 5.2.1736. I wonder if this is the same Charles who witnessed Edward & Sarah Wade's marriage and (so it seems) married Mary Rayner? I think the will of Thomas Tiffin draws together the Layer Tiffins and the Earls Colne Tiffins.

24.3.1731 the wife of Thos Tiffin (buried) in woollen (so he then married Martha, who appears in his 1741 will?)

This voters list mentions Jonathan Tiffin who voted in 1734 - lives in Layer Breton, freehold in Earls Colne.

Thos Tiffin buried in wool 13.11.1741 - this is probably Thomas from Layer-de-la-Haye. In fact, this whole list seems to be Thomas.

The only thing is... Thomas and Ann have a son, John, baptised 22 Jun 1690, then he's buried 15 Sep 1702, and there isn't another John, son of Thomas Tiffin in that list. But... Thomas' will has a son, John. This could be a different family, of course.... But I think the will of John, is the same chap who inherits from Thomas Tiffin, and the will of Sarah Tiffin gives us, possibly, John & Charles. It's a shame it doesn't mention where they're living at the time, or the names of their children or wives, for us to be able to tie it all together. By shame I mean ARRRRGGHHH!!! ;)