Which part of the coat of arms stays the same in the same family

[Old Bristolian]

Hi Steve

is differencing "In addition the following may also be possessed" list?

sorry I am not up on all these terms,

mary
[/quote]

No -these are all in addition to the basic shield (such as the lion & unicorn on the English arms - they are supporters.) Look at Prince Charles arms - easy on the internet. They are differenced from the Queen's by a bar across the top of the shield

[Guy Etchells]

Hi Guy

Thanks for your reply, but I still don't understand, I have googled myself silly on this subject. I just would like to ascertain why two families, one living in Scotland (the ancestor escaped there, fought with Robert bruce and received lands up there as reward(according to their family legend) and one family from Suffolk being knighted once or twice back in history, lastly by Charles 11, would use the exact same shield, but with different things added around it.

tks Mary

From your reply I suggest you are discussing Scottish heraldry rather than English heraldry I described.
Robert the Bruce 1274-1329, I assume the first ancestor received lands after the Battle of Bannockburn 1314.
The second could have been rewarded by Charles II between 1649 and 1651 when Charles was recognised as King of Great Britain & Ireland by the Scottish parliament. However not by the English Interregnum or Commonwealth led by Oliver Cromwell.

Scottish Heraldry abides by different rules than English Heraldry and requires marks of cadency and differencing
It should also be noted that Scottish Heraldry is based on the assumtion that all those who share the same surname are in some way related, no matter how distantly.

If indeed the achievements are Scottish there is a further problem in that the first Scottish armorial dates to 1508. That is not to say that Scottish Heraldry did not begin until that date but the records of it do not exist prior to that date.
Cheers
Guy

[marymog]

Hi Guy

Thanks for your reply, but I still don't understand, I have googled myself silly on this subject. I just would like to ascertain why two families, one living in Scotland (the ancestor escaped there, fought with Robert bruce and received lands up there as reward(according to their family legend) and one family from Suffolk being knighted once or twice back in history, lastly by Charles 11, would use the exact same shield, but with different things added around it.

tks Mary

From your reply I suggest you are discussing Scottish heraldry rather than English heraldry I described.
Robert the Bruce 1274-1329, I assume the first ancestor received lands after the Battle of Bannockburn 1314.
The second could have been rewarded by Charles II between 1649 and 1651 when Charles was recognised as King of Great Britain & Ireland by the Scottish parliament. However not by the English Interregnum or Commonwealth led by Oliver Cromwell.

Scottish Heraldry abides by different rules than English Heraldry and requires marks of cadency and differencing
It should also be noted that Scottish Heraldry is based on the assumtion that all those who share the same surname are in some way related, no matter how distantly.

If indeed the achievements are Scottish there is a further problem in that the first Scottish armorial dates to 1508. That is not to say that Scottish Heraldry did not begin until that date but the records of it do not exist prior to that date.
Cheers
Guy

Hi Guy

sorry for confusing you, my mistake The English one was knighted in 1642.(got my kings confused must have been the Charles 1) But that family had arms already, from what I can understand of it.

The Scottish ones didnt claim arms until 1792 and 1816, and later, but they were all descended from the same family of the one who fought in Bannockburn.

mary

[Little Nell]

Would you consider giving the name?  There may be a reason for the similarity of the arms, but without the name, it's difficult to come up with suggestions for you to consider.

Nell

[marymog]

Would you consider giving the name?  There may be a reason for the similarity of the arms, but without the name, it's difficult to come up with suggestions for you to consider.

Nell

Hi Nell,

Unless there is anybody who would like to help me by PM, I really don't want to put the name where it will come up on a search engine at this phase of my research.


regards
Mary