Degree status - Rev. John Richards, Llanerchymedd.

[Viking666]

Hi.
    I always assumed that the Rev. John Richards, (B1760) had an MA Degree, (Oxon). Recent gravestone photos supplied by Emyr Richards appear to confirm this ... he is always shown with "MA" after his name on various family gravestones. Whilst updating my info on him, I have now come across some anomalies that need to be sorted out regarding his Degree.
 My amateur search of archive documents show the following ...

Richards, John.
Entered as Servitor, i March 1776: Caution received, (This appears to be the Rev. John)
SQJ.
One John Richards matriculated, from Jesus, n July 1774,
as fil. Ric. de Llanegwad, Carm. gen. 30 : another of
the same name matriculated, also from Jesus, 9 Dec.
1774, as fil. Joh. de S. Bride's, Glam. pleb. 18.
B.A. Oriel, 14 Jan. 1779 : M.A. 17 May 1783.
Robinson Exhibitioner, 14 Nov. 1781.

 Further searches haven't uncovered his actual matriculation and the MA that is always used with his name. In all of the documents that relate to him the MA is not shown. The most obvious cause for suspicion is "Liber Cleri Evidence", supplied by the Clergydatabase.org. The 1808 and the 1826 list show him with the appendage of "Lit." This indicates that he didn't have a degree but was educated enough to become a priest. So too the SPCK list of 1826 where person listed above and below him have their degrees shown ... his qualification space is blank.

 Help in clarifying this question would be much appreciated
 

[GrahamSimons]

It may be worthwhile contacting the Archivist at Jesus College: they may well know the answer. [This sentence was written before I got going - now I suspect that the answer does not lie in Oxford]

The 1774 matriculation at age 30 is unusual, and suggests birth about 1744; the son of John of St Bride's, age 18, suggests birth about 1756. The second of these dates of birth matches a bit with what you know of your man. Interesting too that the second one matriculated at Jesus and then moved (I think the term used was migrated) to Oriel; and there might be a hope that his Exhibition led to some documents as well. The Robinson Exhibition was founded in 1719 by John Robinson, Bishop of London, for Bachelors of Arts.

Yes, I agree about "Lit" - I've met one, too, in my research. This rather tends to discount the man who went to Oriel. So the 1774 matriculand looks to be born too early for you. Your servitor may be the man - on the basis of the only one we have yet to discard!

So I went to look at Alumni Oxonienses and found more on this servitor: entered Oriel as bible clerk or servitor 1 March 1776, BA 14 Jan 1779, MA 17 May 1783. So this John Richards did graduate; and he's not listed as a clergyman. So I suspect you need to discard him too. The Llanegwad man has a cross-ref to Gentleman's Magazine of 1843, ii, p 551 and 662.

[Viking666]

 Thanks for that Graham. You followed the same search-method as I did and I'm now quite sure that the MA after his name was a bit of "poetic license". I have a reference to the Reverend John taken from Archaelogia Cambrensis written by the Rev. John Skinner in 1808.

Extract from Archaelogia Cambrensis, Rev. John Skinner, 1808.
  "I here had to regret the loss of my walking stick; I shrewdly suspected that the Cleric, (Rev. John Richards), had taken a fancy to it, there being no other person in the churchyard excepting our own party. This gentleman seems to have paid a good deal of attention to the Antiquities, but superstition is not confined to the ignorant and illiterate. He believes in fairies and stated that he had chased them away from the churchyard many times. !"

 Adding an MA to your name is a small thing when compared to believing in fairies and stealing walking sticks!
                          Thank you for your help.

[trystan]

I've got some very vague recollection here, I'm thinking that a degree in Oxford was (or is) convertible to an MA on application after twelve (?) months of leaving, (or some similar rule)?

Trystan

[GrahamSimons]

I've got some very vague recollection here, I'm thinking that a degree in Oxford was (or is) convertible to an MA on application after twelve (?) months of leaving, (or some similar rule)?

Trystan

Right in principle, wrong in detail - need a couple more years. True also at Cambridge and TCD. So an Oxbridge MA is the same as a BA really. There is another proviso: you must not have brought the university into disrepute in the meantime. And to make things more complex (or simpler) the BSc degree is absent - all graduate as BA even in say theoretical physics. I do love British eccentricity!

[trystan]

Yes, that's what I kind of remember then - a bit of a vague recollection - the anomaly of the BA rather than the BSc or BEng for science and engineering - I wasn't quite sure of the number of years ("?") to the conversion to MA. 

The other thing worth considering is the "hororary" degrees that are given also for their service to society (as are awarded today also).

Trystan

[Viking666]

Adding new information to this old topic.
 Pushing the family tree back another 4 generations has shown that the Rev. John Richards,  (1757), had a brother, the Rev. Edward Richards, (1759) BA, MA. the vicar of Epsom in Surrey. (He Matriculated Jesus Oxford in 1789, aged 24). I now believe that the Rev. John 'tagged' along as a bible-reader and servitor to Edward and didn't study or matriculate in any subject, (as per the entry in 'Liber Cleri').