Author Topic: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves  (Read 17839 times)

Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 12 October 13 07:05 BST (UK) »
Ros, thanks, I have found two Asgill-Tucker addresses in Australia, but when I wrote, both said they were no longer at that address. Thanks for this one, I'll give it a try.

Debra, his death certificate (1939) says "How long in Australasian colonies or states?" as "40 years in NSW", which would make him arriving from overseas around 1899. But was this true? I can find no immigration record for then, or any other time, and I know he must have been in Victoria long enough to meet and marry my grandmother - though that may have been a short time because she was in an unhappy family situation, and may have married to get away (my mum said they more or less eloped).

If he spent a long time in NSW, it would scuttle the idea he copied his name from Francis and Mary, who were always in Victoria after they arrived from Ireland.

I would love to find a reference to him in NSW pre 1913, and there are a few possible references in the Sands directories, but nothing conclusive.

Judith,

I think that is the correct marriage for the couple of interest, and may well be the right shipping link (as an Irish person, he could have travelled via Liverpool). But as you say, they don't seem to get us any further.

Thanks again to all of you.

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Offline cando

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 12 October 13 08:08 BST (UK) »
Information on his death certificate has possibly been copied from the marriage certificate.  Doesn't mean it is accurate.

This Ernest had a medical condition according to this two page file on NAA and was born c1879 ie he was 37 years 0 months on 17 Mar 1916.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=9532106&S=1&T=R

The signatures on the marriage cert and  have similarities so I am assuming it is your Ernest.

Who registered the childrens' births?

Was his place of birth and age the same on all certificates?

Cando

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Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 12 October 13 11:30 BST (UK) »
Information on his death certificate has possibly been copied from the marriage certificate.  Doesn't mean it is accurate.
Yes, I agree.

Quote
This Ernest had a medical condition according to this two page file on NAA and was born c1879 ie he was 37 years 0 months on 17 Mar 1916.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=9532106&S=1&T=R

The signatures on the marriage cert and  have similarities so I am assuming it is your Ernest.
Yes, it was the same Ernest. He had a heart condition. Sometimes makes me wonder if he was older than he said.

Quote
Who registered the childrens' births?
I don't know, I have an official notification of my mother's birth, but not the actual certificate. Do you think this is important? Would it say any more than one of my grandparents' names?

Quote
Was his place of birth and age the same on all certificates?
Yes, except the age varied slightly (2-3 years) - I think he said he was a little younger at his second wedding, and a little older at his attempted enlistment.

Thanks for your interest.

Offline jorose

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 12 October 13 14:37 BST (UK) »
Have you looked into the family of Mary McQUILLAN?  An obvious scenario would be that Ernest was the child of a sibling of hers or some other relation who the Hargrave family took in due to some circumstances (illegitimacy, death of parents when he was young, etc).

The probate records for Francis will be interesting - he died in 1902 but on the index there's the date 1934.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10931639
 - see this notice.
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Online Dundee

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 12 October 13 15:23 BST (UK) »
The only one who could possibly have changed his name to Ernest was Edward John, born 1875, and whose last record I could find was before the 1913 wedding, in 1909, when he is listed on the electoral rolls as a farmer. It isn't impossible that Edward John changed his name to Ernest McQuillan, gave up farming for cooking and dropped his age 5 years, then ran away with my grandmother to NSW, but I can't see any way to test that.

This could be him here http://dhistory.org/archives/naa/items/4968824/

Debra  :)

Offline judb

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 13 October 13 00:03 BST (UK) »
Your mother's actual record may have more information, depending on where she was born (and how truthful the informant was).  You may already have similar information but it would be interesting to see what information there is for Ernest on the record.

Here's the information asked for when registering a birth in Victoria
Births   
 Date and place of birth;
 name of child and whether present or not;
 name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
occupation of parents;
ages and birthplace of parents;
 date and place of marriage of parents;
 previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
 names of those present at the birth;
 date and place of registration.

NSW not quite so comprehensive
Full name, sex, date and place of birth
Mother's details including full name and maiden name, age, occupation, place of birth
Father's details including full name, age, occupation, place of birth
Date and place of parent's marriage
Previous children of the relationship
(You would probably already know that it's quicker and cheaper in NSW to order through a transcription agent who will email the information to you.)

When does he start using McQuillan as part of his name?

Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 13 October 13 00:51 BST (UK) »
Have you looked into the family of Mary McQUILLAN?  An obvious scenario would be that Ernest was the child of a sibling of hers or some other relation who the Hargrave family took in due to some circumstances (illegitimacy, death of parents when he was young, etc).
Yes, I think that is the most likely scenario. I have looked into Mary's family - I was even able to contact and descendant of one of her siblings, still living in Melbourne, but though we went over that family tree together (by email), we couldn't find anything the pointed to Ernest. He was even able to contact a much older relative to see if there were any family stories, but there was nothing. Still doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that it wasn't recorded. As a researcher wrote to me: "It is a shame that the family are a 'tad careless' with their record keeping and details."

Finally, a researcher identified William, a brother of Francis who travelled to Australia with him, and it is possible that Francis and Mary fostered a child of his for some reason. I will have to check that further.

Quote
The probate records for Francis will be interesting - he died in 1902 but on the index there's the date 1934.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10931639
 - see this notice.
I have had someone find the probate records, but there was nothing there either. But I hadn't seen this notice before - I had searched Trove, but must not have searched as well as you did! It indicates that the were searching for other siblings, understandably as by then one was in South Africa, one in Queensland and one in South Australia (it appears - see next comment to Debra).

So thanks a lot for looking and finding this, it adds another small piece of information.

This could be him here http://dhistory.org/archives/naa/items/4968824/

Debra  :)
That is a great find Debra - it certainly proves Edward John didn't change his name to Ernest, for he couldn't be getting injured in the AIF in Egypt at the same time as he was trying unsuccessfully to enlist in Narrabri NSW! That group of documents tells a story - he was fortunate enough to survive the war, albeit with a knee injury. But it also tells me what I didn't know previously, that he had moved to Adelaide and married Grace, hence why I couldn't find him easily.

How did you gain access to that set of documents?

Thanks heaps to both of you! Although I haven't resolved my problem (yet), you have all been wonderfully helpful, and I have learnt some new things.



Offline Eric Hatfield

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 13 October 13 00:55 BST (UK) »
Your mother's actual record may have more information, depending on where she was born (and how truthful the informant was).  You may already have similar information but it would be interesting to see what information there is for Ernest on the record.
Yes, I think you may be right that I should get that record, but he was consistent in what he said, so I'm doubtful it will say anything different. She was born in NSW.

Quote
When does he start using McQuillan as part of his name?
It is on every record I have of him, beginning at the 1913 wedding. I have searched for other Ernests, other McQuillans, etc, but found no-one that seemed very likely in Victoria.


Offline Neil Todd

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Re: My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 13 October 13 01:24 BST (UK) »
This may be a red herring but my cousin is married to a McIlquham McILQUHAM (pronounced McQuillan) and this is variously been transcribed or spelt wrong. I think it is of Welsh origin.

Neil

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