JOHN MCCARTHY AND MARY QUINN

[Neil Todd]

Birth:John McCarthy 1842 NSW
Birth:Charles McCarthy 1848 NSW
Birth:Patrick McCarthy 1849 NSW
Birth:Mary S McCarthy 1850 NSW
Birth:George McCarty 1851 Vic to John and Mary McCarty (no nee name)?
Birth:James McCarthy 1852 NSW
Birth:John McCarty 1854 Qld
Birth:Clara McCarty 1854 Qld
Death:Daniel MCarthy 1857 Vic
Birth:Thomas McCarthy 1858 Vic
9 Births and 1 Death Total

Now I realise that you have a lot of unpublished information and have been researching this family for many years, but...you did ask for help. I am trying to give it with as much accuracy as possible and from the veiwpoint of an interested observer with no real need to include dubious information.

If I am not helping or you have lost interest please say so and I will stop pestering you with worthless already held information.

Neil

[majm]

Re those 11 children on Mary’s 1860 NSW BDM death cert

I am developing a somewhat different list from yours Neil.     

From NSW BDM online indexes ONLY …..
and like Neil, these are only INDEXES, so I do NOT hold the actual certificates.

ECR Baptisms (“V” Series)/Civil Births
1842, John McCARTHY, Vol 145 and Vol 61  (on Neil’s List)
1842 Mary McCARTHY, Vol 142
1842 Mary McCARTY Vol 145
1844 Jane McCARTHY Vol 145
1846 Elizabeth McARTHY Vol 31A & Vol 158
1846 John McCARTY, Vol 63
1847 Clara McCARTY  Vol 64  (Neil’s List has 1854 and Qld)
1848 Charles McCARTHY Vol 65  (On Neil’s List)
1849 Catherine McCARTHY Vol 67
1849 Patrick McCARTHY, Vol 66  (On Neil’s List)
1850 Catherine McCARTHY, Vol 67
1850 Mary S McCARTHY, Vol 68  (On Neil’s List)
1852 James McCARTHY, Vol 121A (On Neil’s List)
1854 James McCAULY, Vol 71
1859 Mary McCARTHY Vol 142B
1859 Mary McCARTHY, Civil #8718 (Macleay River)

ECR Burials (V” Series)/Civil Deaths
1860 Florence McCARTHY, Civil  #3183(Binalong)

NSW SRO http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids  …. Short Guides are fantastic help for “anything” NSW particularly in the 19th Century.

So try these Short Guides:
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-2/short-guide-2  (Click onto the headings (Baptisms/Marriages/Deaths) for further info.
And
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4
And notice that Roman Catholic ECRs for Baptisms from 1840 to 1855 are in Volumes 61 to 72. 
Also notice that Roman Catholic ECRs for Marriages from 1834 to 1856 are in Volumes 90 to 101
Also notice that Roman Catholic ECRs for Burials from 1840 to 1856 are in Volumes 114-120

Also a special reminder , If anyone is accessing those reels, (at NSW SRO or at other facilities using the Archives Resources Kit or otherwise) you are unable to actually get authorisation to take photocopies of those records, so take pencil and paper and transcribe the details directly in your own hand.    If you require a copy of that actual record, you need to apply to the NSW BDM “in the usual way” and purchase the official record (which is NOT a digitised image).   

“The Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages gave approval in accordance with the provisions of Section 14(6) of the Archives Act, 1960, that these records would be made available for public use from 1st February 1984. This approval was subject to the following conditions
that persons may access only the microfilm copy of the records contained in Registry Volume Numbers 1 to 162, and State Record volumes numbered 5/4219, 5/4221 and 5/3841, and may take note of any recorded details; and that any person requiring a copy of the actual record should apply to the Registry in the usual way as State Records may not issue any print or any other kind of photocopy from the microfilms.”

Neil,

Karen, our OP, mentioned earlier that she has the original documentation, but I have not yet been able to separate the pdf info into those 11 children mentioned on that dc.... so I gather you must be experiencing similar difficulties too. 
 

I have attached a profile of both John McCarthy and Mary Quinn based on documents that I have acquired as well as perusing other researchers. What I am getting an impression of is that the family seemed to follow the various gold rushes in both Victoria and Queensland. .... I look forward to any assistance.

 

I have the original documentation.

I am sure that Karen will be back as soon as possible, .... as it is now that "tomorrow", today 

I will email death certificate details tomorrow. I have to shoot off now. Thanks so much. Karen

Cheers JM

[Neil Todd]

My only purpose in following these births/deaths is to find the correct John McCarthy/Various spellings and Mary Quin/Various spellings.

Neil

[majm]

Possible Sydney baptism for the 5 year old lass who was admitted (April 1832) to the Female Orphan School after the death of her father.   

 
Mary A QUIN, dau of Charles and Esther,  baptism in 1827
NSW BDM Vol 125 Line 907;  Vol 127 line 759 and in Vol 128 line 773.
 
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html

 I wonder if she was the lass discharged from the Orphan School 14 Sept 1835 ?

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-education-and-child-welfare-records

 
Cheers,  JM

[ktw]

Thanks to all. Below is a transcription from Mary McCarthy's (nee Quinn) and John McCarthy's death certificate.

Date and place of death: 21 August 1860; Wambrook; District of Cooma
Name and Occupation: Mary McCarthy
Sex and Age: Female; 34 years
Cause of Death; Duration of last illness; Medical attendant; when last saw deceased: Influenza; 10 days; no medical attendant.
Name and occupation of father; Name and maiden surname of mother: --------Quin (butcher); Mary Quin
Informant: John McCarthy Husband; on the road to Kiandra; district of Cooma
Particulars of registration: John James Ryall; 22 Aug 1860; Cooma
When and where buried; name of undertaker: 22 Aug 1860; Cooma; Robert Kinber
Name and religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: John McCarthy; Mary Quin witnesses
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Dublin, Ireland; 20 years; New South Wales
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 1840; John McCarthy
Children of marriage: 5 males, 1 female living, 2 males, 2 females deceased



Date and place of death: 23 May 1876; Duaringa (QLD)
Name and Occupation: John McCarthy; Carpenter
Sex and Age: Male; 56 years
Cause of Death; Duration of last illness; Medical attendant; when last saw deceased: Slow fever; 7 weeks; no medical attendant.
Name and occupation of father; Name and maiden surname of mother: John McCarthy, Carpenter; and not known
Informant: Certified in writing by Martha McCarthy, daughter in law, Duaringa
Particulars of registration: Edmund ???rey; 2 June 1876, Banana
When and where buried; name of undertaker: 23 May 1876; Duaringa; John Battie(?)
Name and religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: Joseph Elliott; Roman Catholic service; witnesses Philip Holmes, John Campbell
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Sydney, NSW, 56 years
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 21 years; not known
Children of marriage: John (30yrs); Patrick (26yrs); Clara (25yrs); George (24yrs); James (20yrs); Thomas (16yrs);

Additionally, the only reference to other children on Thomas McCarthy's birth certificate is 5 boys, 1 girl and 4 boys and 3 girls deceased.

[majm]

Thanks to all. Below is a transcription from Mary McCarthy's (nee Quinn) and John McCarthy's death certificate.
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Dublin, Ireland; 20 years; New South Wales
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 1840; John McCarthy
Children of marriage: 5 males, 1 female living, 2 males, 2 females deceased

Hi there,

I am somewhat confused by your transcription for Mary's 1860 dc, please check the two snips I have attached.   

I notice that there were 5 males and 1 female living and 3 males and 2 females deceased.  As the informant was the husband of the deceased, this information ought to be fairly reliable. 

 Have you found independent official sources to confirm those 11 un-named children ?    her mother was Mary QUIN, but he did not know Mrs Quin’s nee name.   The official witnesses were John Mc CARTHY and Mary QUIN.  May I please note that if that Mary was  John Mc Carthy’s mother in law, then she actually did NOT provide him with either the given name for his father in law (her husband) or her own nee name that he needed as the informant.   

John Mc Carthy believed that his wife was from Dublin, Ireland and that she had been in New South Wales for 30 years.   As Victoria was hived off from NSW in 1851, then it would seem the couple and their children had NOT lived in Victoria.   

Cheers,

[majm]

Date and place of death: 23 May 1876; Duaringa (QLD)
Name and Occupation: John McCarthy; Carpenter
Sex and Age: Male; 56 years
Cause of Death; Duration of last illness; Medical attendant; when last saw deceased: Slow fever; 7 weeks; no medical attendant.
Name and occupation of father; Name and maiden surname of mother: John McCarthy, Carpenter; and not known
Informant: Certified in writing by Martha McCarthy, daughter in law, Duaringa
Particulars of registration: Edmund ???rey; 2 June 1876, Banana
When and where buried; name of undertaker: 23 May 1876; Duaringa; John Battie(?)
Name and religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: Joseph Elliott; Roman Catholic service; witnesses Philip Holmes, John Campbell
Where born and how long in the Australasian Colonies or States: Sydney, NSW, 56 years
Place of marriage, age, and to whom: Sydney; 21 years; not known
Children of marriage: John (30yrs); Patrick (26yrs); Clara (25yrs); George (24yrs); James (20yrs); Thomas (16yrs);

You have your Ancestor as Thomas McCarthy, and that he was born 1858 at Kilmore, Victoria.    Are you sure you have the right birth?   There are a number of likely births on the index for Vic BDM….  And that 1876 Qld dc seems to be pointing to a 16 year old lad named Thomas so  born 1859-1861 rather than 1858.

Assuming Mary who died at Cooma 1860 was the wife of John who died  at Duaringa  1876, may I please ask  who raised the children,    including your ancestor Thomas ?

My puter is having a touch of the wobbles and is not currently getting Qld BDM to co-operate.  So I cannot search to see if Mary QUIN, (the mother in law) may have died in Qld after raising her young grandchildren, including your ancestor Thomas.

Cheers,  JM 


Cheers,  JM

[Neil Todd]

The death of John McCARTHY the son is listed on Qld BDM 1911 Ref # C3281 Country Qld.

The death that Karen points to is that of possibly the father John McCarthy in 1876 giving his age as 56 and born in NSW 1820. Ref # C1173

Neil

[majm]

Thanks Neil.   

So that 1911 death is meant to tie up to that 1845 birth at Forbes NSW       and that 1911 death is meant to be for John who is the brother of Thomas who was born 1858 at Kilmore Vic. 

Karen,

Did your Thomas marry?  I am presuming so,      From Thomas' marriage cert, what information did HE provide about his own parentage .....  This would be first hand information. 

It would be worthwhile to also look at John 1845-1911 ....  Did he marry?  If so, what information did HE provide about his on parentage on his marriage cert.....  This too would be first hand information, and may well be a tad more detailed than Thomas'.   

Then you need to actually confirm that John who died in 1911 is the same chap as the one born 1845.   And then you need to validate that your Ancestor was that chap's brother.   

Also, Karen, I am still a tad confused  for example where INGRAM comes into the picture .....

08 Jun 1858, Kilmore, Colony of VIC
Thomas McCarthy (son)   My ancestor.      Mother: Mary Quin Ingram (?)
Age: 28    Born: Stafford, England        Thomas' birth certificate.
May I please ask if you have you followed up the INGRAM clue and/or the Stafford England clue

Cheers,  JM