Author Topic: Thurleigh Parish Records  (Read 51835 times)

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 24 October 13 14:14 BST (UK) »
Blow it, or words to that effect! Just lost most of the message. Now I'll have to start again. Air's blue in the south of France.

If William inherited the residue (bulk) of the estate I assume William was the eldest son
Two children of John were mentioned in the appendix as born in 1742 & 1745
If James was a minor in 1777 then he was born after 1756 so after the children mentioned in the appendix.
Therefore perhaps William was born 1742 and Sarah 1745.
This was my assumption. William must have been older as James couldn't have been an executor if a minor

Sarah Seaby or Sabey married Thos Hartop 2 Oct 1771 Bolnhurst Beds (born 1745 married aged 26)
Sarah Hartop buried 21 Jul 1778 Keysoe burial mother or daughter. Sarah is not a beneficiary in the will. Did she die?
Thomas Hartupp s of Thomas and Sarah bap 20 Dec 1772 Keysoe
Mary Hartop d of Thomas and Sarah bap 3 Apr 1774 Keysoe
(also daughter Sarah 1778, son Essek 1779 Keysoe ?bap after Sarah’s burial. No bapt John and James)
I think that the 1778 burial at Keysoe is probably the daughter, in that Thomas and Sarah baptised Essek over a year later. She wasn't named as dead in the 1777 will so I assume she was alive. Is she the Sarah Hartopp who marrried Abraham Fisher in Keysoe in 1783, following the death of Thomas in 1780? Would need to check the PR to see if she was described as widow.

Wm Sabey of Colmworth burial 1 Nov 1782 St Peter at Thurleigh Beds (any notes on this burial may help?)
This was soon after the will was proved.
William SABEY buried 28 Feb 1827 aged 75 born 1752 St Dunstans Bolnhurst. (ten years younger)
This William probably married.
I'm pretty sure the 1827 burial is that of William son of James and Elizabeth baptised 1752 in Bolnhurst. I'm not so sure about the William of Colmworth buried at Thurleigh. Freereg will have transcribed any notes so "of Colmworth" is as much as you're going to get. He could just as easily be William (brother of Goodman) baptised at Colmworth in 1721. BLARS have his will, which might shed some light on who he was. And, yes, I know, William's parents are shown as Joseph and Mary. I'm assuming this is a PR error for Joseph & Katherine.

I cannot see a marriage for James but there is a burial;
Jas SABEY of Bolnhurst was buried in Wilstead 15th April 1800 Wlistead PR. is James on FreeReg. Wilstead is 11 miles South from Bolnhurst
I have a note against James that he might be the one buried in Wilstead. I'm not prepared to go further than that in the absence of any further evidence.

John. Thank you for the Thurley link and the 1723 Goodman baptism in Colmworth. I think this Goodmans of Joseph (1675) married Elizabeth Valentine in 1753 at Colmworth. I cannot see how they link to Goodman/Thos Seely/Seeby buried 1727 Thurleigh
Joseph & Katherine were my 7xg grandparents. I think the Seely family is a red herring, notwithstanding they too had a son Goodman.

As an aside, a traditional naming pattern in Devon was to use a mother or grandmother’s maiden name as a given name for their children. Could perhaps this branch have a mother nee Goodman?
I've looked but never found one. Mainly because I don't know where Joseph Sabey was from, nor his wife Katherine Berry either for that matter. They tended to use maiden names as given names in Hunts too. The best one I came across was a blacksmith with a given name of Joyce. Reminds me of the Johnny Cash song " A Boy named Sue"!


In 1750, the Rev John Jones, Rector of Bolnhurst, made a schedule of heads of households, religious denomination, landlord, & size of household. One of the non-conformists was John Saby, farmer, of Backenhoe, 8 in household. (Keysoe, Brook End Baptist Church Book, held at BLARS). That's either a lot of unrecorded children, all of whom must have died as they're not mentioned in the will) or a lot of servants.

Somehow I've missed this Bolnhurst Sabey line from my Ancestry tree, as they don't link in to my other Sabeys ie they don't link to Joseph & Katherine. Must look to rectify that, but it's a day's work!
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 24 October 13 19:13 BST (UK) »
Is she the Sarah Hartopp who marrried Abraham Fisher in Keysoe in 1783, following the death of Thomas in 1780? Would need to check the PR to see if she was described as widow.

Keysoe PR marriage transcript has 27 Jun 1783 Abraham Fisher, bach, yeoman, to Sarah Hartopp, widow by licence.... wonder if the licence transcript tells us more.   

.... next Keysoe burial on 21 Jul 1778 is Sarah daughter of Thomas & Sarah Hartop

.... burial on 7 Feb 1780 is Thomas Hartop, farmer & churchwarden **

** at back of Keysoe PRs is list of clergy, Thomas Hartop, churchwarden 1759, 60, 61 & 62 and then again 1771 though to 1779
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
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Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 24 October 13 19:33 BST (UK) »
Thanks John, forgot you had Keysoe.

These Bolnhurst Sabeys were a notch or two above your average ag lab

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #12 on: Friday 25 October 13 07:54 BST (UK) »
Interesting that Sarah from a non-conformist family married Thomas Hartopp a churchwarden in the established church.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell


Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #13 on: Friday 25 October 13 09:02 BST (UK) »
Interesting snippet from Bolnhurst PR baptisms; 7 Aug 1757 John, the supposed son of Thomas Hartop of Kaisho (Keysoe) Row by Mary Fensham of this parish, spinster
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
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Offline seahall

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #14 on: Friday 25 October 13 09:14 BST (UK) »
Hi.

Sorry to go off topic but I noticed the link to Thurleigh that you noted John
and as someone is looking at the area for their ancestors we are helping with
I am going to direct them to it. Cheers.

Sandy
Census Crown Copyright

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #15 on: Friday 25 October 13 11:59 BST (UK) »
I hope the air has cleared in Carcassonne, it has been sunny here today. If it is any conolation I lost 2 days work checking all the census’ when my computer automatically shut down. I know ‘control and save’!

Quote
Is she (Sarah) the Sarah Hartopp who marrried Abraham Fisher in Keysoe in 1783, following the death of Thomas in 1780?
Quote

John a big ‘Thank you’ for reply and that Sarah Hartop was a widow.
If Sarah Hartop was nee Sabey d of John then her mother was Elizabeth HULL of Thurleigh (d of Robert Hull a Farmer who died 1723 and Elizabeth)

There were other Sabey Hull / Hall links (plus Joseph and Elizabeth later)

Joseph SABEY to Rebecca FISHER or HALL marriage 28 Dec 1814 Colmworth
Licence: Joseph Sabey of Bolnhurst and Rebecca Fisher alias Hull of Colmworth 27 December 1814
Was she Rebecca Fisher bap 4 Jun 1790 d of William and Susan at Northill Beds? Why was she alis HULL?
Joseph and Rebecca had one child Thomas baptised 1 May 1819 at Colmworth buried 4 Jun 1819 aged 1 month Bolnhurst
Joseph's wife Rebeccca SABEY aged 58 born 1793 buried 17 Jun 1851 Bolnhurst
Was Joseph born 1792 s of William Sabey and Sarah Throssell?

Was Joseph 1792 the son of William Saby 1742 the son of John and and his mother Elizabeth Hull?

Also
Edward Sabey married Mary Fisher 11 May 1778 at Godmanchester, Huntingdon, Hunts
Their children baptised 1779-1785 Eaton Socon including a son Francis bap 1785
Was he Edw. Sabey bap 6 Oct 1751 s of Peter & Eliz.at Roxton Beds or possibly a brother of Francis?

Elzth Sabey married Wm Fisher 1812 Old Warden Beds also reg at Southill Pallots Marriage
In 1841 John Sabey born 1771 Beds with his son in law William Fisher born 1786 Beds living Southill


Quote
I'm pretty sure the 1827 burial is that of William son of James and Elizabeth baptised 1752 in Bolnhurst. I'm not so sure about the William of Colmworth buried at Thurleigh.. He could just as easily be William (brother of Goodman) baptised at Colmworth in 1721. BLARS have his will, which might shed some light on who he was. And, yes, I know, William's parents are shown as Joseph and Mary. I'm assuming this is a PR error for Joseph & Katherine.
Quote

Wm Sabey of Colmworth burial 1 Nov 1782 St Peter at Thurleigh Beds
The reason I thought this could have been related to John of Backnoe is because John Saby's Farm was in the Parish of Thurleigh. If John’s son William did not die, perhaps he married at Thurleigh to Sarah Throssel in 1785?


Quote
William's parents are shown as Joseph and Mary. I'm assuming this is a PR error for Joseph & Katherine.
Quote

I do not have the baptisms etc for this period in Colmworth so there may have been another William Sabey bap in Colmworth but have allocated the burial William bap 1721 son of Joseph and Mary/Katherine’s;
William Saby an infant buried 28 May 1728 at St Denys Colmworth Beds

Quote
In 1750….One of the non-conformists was John Saby, farmer, of Backenhoe, 8 in household. (Keysoe, Brook End Baptist Church Book, held at BLARS). That's either a lot of unrecorded children, all of whom must have died as they're not mentioned in the will) or a lot of servants.
Quote

John, his wife Elizabeth, children William and Sarah is only four!  Elizabeth born and died 1752 James was born after 1756 so not in the count. A possible child was Mary Sabey d of J of Bolnhurst burial 1774 Thurleigh.

I had a look at any possible family members in the area who could have been servants to Farmer John in 1750 and found;

Joseph Sabey to Eliz Hall on 24 Dec 1751, servants, both of Bolnhurst (?1st wife)
They had one child bap William, son of Joseph & Eliz Saby, labr, priv bap 26 Dec 1752 Bolnhurst.
If William was privately baptised did he die soon after which is why he was baptised to be buried?
Joseph’s wife Elizabeth nee Hall was buried in 1769. Although they had been married 18 years there were no other baptised children. Perhaps Joseph and Elizabeth were also NC and this is where Francis 1760 fits in? Could John the Farmer and Joseph the servant be related?

Quote
Somehow I've missed this Bolnhurst Sabey line from my Ancestry tree, as they don't link in to my other Sabeys ie they don't link to Joseph & Katherine. Must look to rectify that, but it's a day's work!
Quote
I look forward to your findings!!


Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #16 on: Friday 25 October 13 12:21 BST (UK) »
I look forward to your findings!!
My findings are all in my computer. It's just that John the non-conformist and his family, and Francis and all of his descendants didn't get transferred to Ancestry. Unfortunately it seems as though I can't add a gedcom to an existing tree on Ancestry so I've got to enter them manually, which I'm doing at the moment, but after an hour and a quarter I've only added 5 names! But it does give me the chance to rethink my logic. One thought that's already occurred to me is that there's nothing to say that Joseph Sabey, the other family in Bolnhurst, the one who married firstly Elizabeth Hall in 1751, was also non-conformist. The fact that he baptised one child from each of his three marriages in the established church suggests that he wasn't non-conformist. Which might be why I haven't inked in that Francis was his son. There's not enough evidence to show that he was. But I'm sure that Francis wasn't the son of John otherwise he'd have been mentioned in the 1777 will.

Yet Francis appears to have been non-conformist as well - have you checked Little Staughton Baptist church book to see if there's anything there that sheds any light on his background?

Joseph SABEY to Rebecca FISHER or HALL marriage 28 Dec 1814 Colmworth
Licence: Joseph Sabey of Bolnhurst and Rebecca Fisher alias Hull of Colmworth 27 December 1814
Was she Rebecca Fisher bap 4 Jun 1790 d of William and Susan at Northill Beds? Why was she alis HULL?
1851 gives her birthplace as Colmworth, if it's the right Rebecca, as she's described as unmarried.
See also Bedford gaol website for an 1814 entry for Joseph Sabey.

Can you access my tree on Ancestry? If not send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you an invitation.

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Thurleigh Parish Records
« Reply #17 on: Friday 25 October 13 14:07 BST (UK) »
The only Little Staughton records I have are;
Dinnah Sabey born 14 Feb 1791 d of Frances and Charlotte bap at Baptist Church Lt Staughton
Samuel Sabey s of Francis and Charlotte born 1 Feb 1793 bapt Baptist Church Lt Staughton
His son Boaz marries Little Staughton
Boaz Sabey aged 30 born 1819 s of Samuel married Louisa Lugsdin aged 21 born 1828 d of Robert married 28 Mar 1849 Little Staughton Bedford

I can only find these two baptism for Frances first two children but there were obviously others probably;
1795 William SABEY Bolnhurst, 1800 Thomas SABEY Bolnhurst, 1800 Ann SABEY / YORK Bolnhurst, 1803 Rebeca SABEY / COVINGTON Bolnhurst

There are two burials for Rececca Saby;
Rebeccca SABEY aged 58 born 1793 buried 17 Jun 1851 St Dunstans Bolnhurst
Rebecca Saby aged 60 born 1791 buried 15 Jun 1851 Bedford Workhouse.
But I can only find one on the census;
In 1851 RS born 1795 Colnworth unmarried a servant is a pauper in Bedford workhouse.
In 1841 RS born 1796 Beds liv Bolnhurst with William and Rebecca Carroll next to Blackland Farm. previous home is Charlotte Sabey nee White widow of Francis with her d Ann York

Joseph Sabey born 1793 committed
1815 of Bolnhurst 3 months for Snaring
1816 of Bolnhurst 2 years stealing ducks broke from prison 19 April bought back 26th 1817
1819 of Bromham 3 months Game Laws
1822 born in and of Bolnhurst 4 months Game Laws 2nd offence married
Joseph SABEY buried 5 Aug 1827 aged 36 born 1791 Bolnhurst
Joseph Sabey born 1792 bapt 20 Oct 1795 s of William and Sarah at Bolnhurst

Perhaps Rebecca was fed up with him and the amount of time he spent in prison is probably why they only had one child!