Author Topic: road block - suggestions welcomed  (Read 12242 times)

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 14 December 14 16:07 GMT (UK) »
Just so we all know who is being looked for, in 1871:

John Boyce 45 - c1825 furniture dealer
Eliza Boyce 39 - c1832
Joseph Boyce 12 - c1859
John Boyce 10 - c1861
Clara Boyce 7 - c1864
Ellen Boyce 4 - c1867
Emma Boyce 8 mo. - c1870
and a Henry Robson nephew 25 born c1846
all reportedly born in Shoreditch

Robson must be the result of a marriage of a sister of Eliza (no Boyce+Robson marriage to fit). Henry Thomas Robson birth reg 1845 Shoreditch.

The father may be John Nutt Boyce? Marriage possibly to Eliza Garrett 1859 Strand ... but he died aged 75 (i.e. born c1817) 1892 Wandsworth. An Eliza Boyce aged 65 (i.e. born c1828) died 1893 Wandsworth. Possibly rounded/guessed ages? Can't see that couple in 1891 ...

In 1861 the couple are John and Eliza'th in Shoreditch with son Joseph. Unfortunately, a Charles and Susan Boyce had a son Joseph in Shoreditch just before this one so forward tracing is iffy.


I wonder whether this is the household in 1891 in Hackney:

Eliza Boyce widow aged 50 tent maker
Emma Boyce daughter aged 20 tent maker
Robert Boyce son aged 16
Alice Boyce daughter aged 18
all born Shoreditch

Alice Mary Boyce 1872 Shoreditch
Robert William Boyce 1874 Shoreditch

There is a Robert William Boyce + Kathleen Maud Tyler marriage in Pancras in 1907 (Boyce-Tyler births in Pancras after 1911) and children Robert William 1908 and Rose Kathleen 1910 would seem to be theirs, but blamed if I can see them in 1911. Oh right. Everybody except Rose is going by their middle name, surname Boyce ... and the details for father William are way off our Robert so it isn't him; this one actually was born William Robert 1888. Can't spot a marriage for Alice Mary either.


I have to reinterate that I am unconvinced that someone born Boyce in the 1860s would have become Bice by the time he married. Especially when other children in the family are findable as Boyce. Name spellings were fairly settled by then, and the two names are distinct names in their own right.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

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Offline bugbear

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 14 December 14 17:09 GMT (UK) »
John/Eliza wedding (full forenames as per the baptisms from earlier)

Elizabeth Eliza Guest to John George Boyce , 29 Jul 1855, Christ Church, Highbury Grove

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D3C-QS6

The "Boyce" name is consistent and solid :-(

I'm now just annoyed that I can't find them in 1881, but I don't think this is "my" family.

   BugBear
BICE Middlesex
WOMACK Norfolk/Suffolk

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Offline bugbear

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 14 December 14 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Just so we all know who is being looked for, in 1871:

John Boyce 45 - c1825 furniture dealer
Eliza Boyce 39 - c1832
 

I wonder whether this is the household in 1891 in Hackney:

Eliza Boyce widow aged 50 tent maker
Emma Boyce daughter aged 20 tent maker
Robert Boyce son aged 16
Alice Boyce daughter aged 18
all born Shoreditch


Hmm. In 20 years, Eliza has only aged 5!! Emma's about right though.

Found a good death (FreeBMD)

Deaths Dec 1882   (>99%)
BOYCE    John George    53    Shoreditch    1c   92

That's an 1829 DOB.

Wowza; Eliza didn't hang about: (FreeBMD again)

Marriages Jun 1886   (>99%)
BAINES    David William        Bethnal Green    1c   596
Boyce    Elizabeth Eliza         Bethnal Green    1c   596
Rogers    Henry         Bethnal Green    1c   596
Tavender    Florence         Bethnal Green    1c   596

Married a Rogers or a Baines.

OK. She married the Baines. Because she REMARRIED in 1902 as Baines!!

Marriages Mar 1902   (>99%)
Baines    Eliza Elizabeth        Shoreditch    1c   110
Carroll    Charles William         Shoreditch    1c   110
Cray    Clara         Shoreditch    1c   110
Larcombe    Walter Fisher         Shoreditch    1c   110

 BugBear
BICE Middlesex
WOMACK Norfolk/Suffolk

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 14 December 14 19:14 GMT (UK) »
Too many assumptions there, I think. ;)

Check out Eliza Elizabeth Larcombe with husband Walter Fisher Larcombe in 1911. A good generation too young.

The 1891 census I posted, with the nice round age of 50, seems the most likely to me.



HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline bugbear

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 14 December 14 20:16 GMT (UK) »
Too many assumptions there, I think. ;)

Check out Eliza Elizabeth Larcombe with husband Walter Fisher Larcombe in 1911. A good generation too young.

The 1891 census I posted, with the nice round age of 50, seems the most likely to me.

Oops - I didn't do follow up checks on the marriages!  :-[

 BugBear
BICE Middlesex
WOMACK Norfolk/Suffolk

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 14 December 14 20:49 GMT (UK) »
but 1901! Anc'y cleverly chops the household up, but it looks like this, in Hackney:

Henry J Watts 32 painter
Alice M Watts 28
Henry J Watts 2
Alice M Watts 2
Eliza Boyce 62 mother-in-law, widowed, canvas sail maker

I'm certain these are not John Bice's family, but if anybody ever comes looking for them at RootsChat, they will be waiting. ;)
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline bugbear

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #33 on: Monday 15 December 14 19:00 GMT (UK) »
In support of your 1891 census, I note their address; 6 Downham Rd.

1891 Census also has John Rolfe + Clara Rolfe (nee Boyce...) at 55C Downham Rd

In the 1896 wedding of Emma to James Fossett their address is 57 Downham Rd.

Not conclusive but very "compatible".

 BugBear
BICE Middlesex
WOMACK Norfolk/Suffolk

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 18:07 GMT (UK) »
Hello bugbear, I'm back to Bices!

I probably mentioned I've been doing YDNA testing in connection with my Cornwall ancestors.

I have just encountered the Cornwall YDNA project (which I swear wasn't there when I looked for it two years ago).

It has a Bice participant, a descendant of the William Skinner Bice c1790 discussed in this older thread here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=468214.0

Is your partner a male-line descendant of John Thomas - or do you have access to the spit of someone who is? (You don't have to answer about your partner himself, of course; I just wonder whether there are male-line descendants of John Thomas whom you are in touch with one way or another.) (Or oops, have I got it backwards, and you are the male half of the equation??)

A son of a son of ... is what is needed, to do the test. So if your partner has a living Bice uncle, for instance, or male cousin of a Bice father -- no matter the distance of the relationship from your partner as long as the person is in the direct male line from John Thomas Bice.

If so, doing the testing could come up with something for you (even if not a Cornwall Bice connection). If you want to PM me, I can give you some links to check out what there is, and how to get going if your partner is interested.

HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline bugbear

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Re: road block - suggestions welcomed
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 12 February 15 08:53 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the thought - I'm sure ( ;) ) I could find a male line descendant
(isn't that what FreeBMD and the internet are for ? ...).

But (TBH) I'm quite happy at the moment with the knowledge
that J T Bice certainly is descended from the West Country Bices (because
there is no other possibility).

It's the lack of "social" history about him that's so galling.

 BugBear
BICE Middlesex
WOMACK Norfolk/Suffolk