Author Topic: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper  (Read 7424 times)

Online KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,848
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 31 October 13 12:56 GMT (UK) »
For the record, here is the 1851 census
Class: HO107; Piece: 1795; Folio: 613; Page: 29
Yaxley, Suffolk

Luder, William  Head  M  43  Farm Lab
Luder, Jane  Wife  F  39
Luder, Joshua  Son  M  20  Pauper cripple
Luder, Henry  Son  M  13  Farm Boy
Luder, Isabella  Daugter  F  11  Scholar
Luder, Thomas  Son  M  9  Scholar
Luder, Robert  Son  M  6  Scholar
Luder Shadrack (or Frederick?)  Son  M  2               all born Yaxley
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline De Tails

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #10 on: Friday 01 November 13 02:44 GMT (UK) »
Yep, that's the one - tempting, eh?  8-)

Thanks for the look-up Kevin - that gives me the folio reference which I forgot to record when I saved the image of the page. 

chrs
Sue
Suffolk Surnames of Interest: Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige/Aldridge

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline De Tails

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 12 November 13 05:05 GMT (UK) »
Hello again

I have now heard back from the SRO - very helpful. Unfortunately they do not have parish records which could assist. The researcher agreed that it appeared that Joshua was living at home, so perhaps he didn't draw any relief despite the label. Also, she reckoned that the record was mis-transcribed as Luder as the original looked more like Lyder.

I'm going to leave this end of the research on Joshua for now, and shift back to the Canadian end. Thanks for all your help.

Best -
De
Suffolk Surnames of Interest: Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige/Aldridge

Offline fastfusion

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,446
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 12 November 13 07:08 GMT (UK) »
hugh wallis >

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySuffolk.htm

there is not much surviving or microfilmed but the reference for what does exist is on that link.... you can if needed order that film through LDS near you


Offline De Tails

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 12 November 13 07:46 GMT (UK) »
Cool - completely new to me.

Many thanks - will have a look now.  :)

chrs
De
Suffolk Surnames of Interest: Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige/Aldridge

Offline PaulCote23

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 18 April 15 02:16 BST (UK) »
I may be a little late on this thread but I find it very interesting. De Tail in one of her posts mentioned Robert Leeder and Hannah from Rattlesden. I have researched this family for many years. Robert married Hannah Sewell in 1818 in Drinkstone. They came to Canada in 1825, with assisted passage, compliments of the parish of Rattlesden. They are the Leeders mentioned as living in Escott and Yonge Townships in Leeds County. This Robert was originally from Elmswell. His great grandfather, Thomas, moved to Elmswell about 1717 and married an Elmswell girl, Ann Markall. He was originally from the village of North Lopham just over the border in Norfolk. I can trace the Lopham Leeders back to the early 1500s.

As mentioned, there were several Leeder families that immigrated to Canada. I've tried to see if I could connect those families to mine but haven't had much luck. Looking at trees on ancestry it appears their descendents aren't really sure where their Leeders originated. From the Canadian census records I'm aware of the ones you have mentioned, including Robert and Jane.

Based on my research, though, it seems that a large majority of the English Leeders started in western Norfolk. That seems to be where the name is most common. Although it isn't a common name there are just enough to cause a lot of confusion.

Paul

Offline De Tails

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 20 August 15 11:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Paul - I'm a bit late on your bit late, but interested in your post. I'm now reasonably confident that my William's father was Robert Leeder bap. Thrandeston 23/11/1766, first marriage Hannah Keeley on 30/01/1787 (bur. 26/12/1788). Robert and Hannah had a son John (bur. 03/03/1789).

Robert's second marriage was with  Margaret Moy (b abt 1770) 03/11/1789, both marriages in Yaxley. They had William (b 18/06/1796, d. 6 days later), Mary b? (bur. 13/03/1798), Sarah b 07/05/1799, Susan b 30/08/1801, Henry b 17/09/1809.  I still haven't found William's record, but our family date is 1804 which fits the sequence.

[Robert's parents seem to be Robert b. abt 1728 Thrandeston and Sarah b.abt 1730. His siblings are Jonathan 1769, Jane 1770, and possibly Sarah 1753, Elizabeth 1755, Mary 1757, making Robert the middle child.]

Establishing these started with the help from the good people on this forum - for which major thanks - and then I have Census and other data, so as I say reasonably confident.

I still haven't found immigration dates but they must be between 1851 and 1861 based on the Censuses.

I'm also still head-banging about Joshua the "pauper/cripple" as the Joshua in Canada is married to an Irish Elizabeth, not the English Elizabeth Robinson from Yaxley (m. 1860). I suspect that this Joshua and Elizabeth stayed in England as the transformation is otherwise huge. I've also got a Joshua's Probate to the widow Elizabeth in 1873, but it's in Holburn, Middlesex and that sounds a bit far afield. (If it is them they had five children 1861 - 1868).

Anyone know if Elizabeth Robinson in Yaxley was Irish? (Or, did Joshua actually marry Amelia Baker - Hartismere 4a613 - if so the joke is on everyone who's put Amaranth Joshua in their tree!)

De
Suffolk Surnames of Interest: Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige/Aldridge

Offline De Tails

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 08 February 18 08:58 GMT (UK) »
Good Evening all and Happy New Year!

It's quite awhile since I've been back here and there's been a lot of progress in the research on my Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige line. Despite a *lot* of work, I still can't determine the Cripple/Pauper meaning so will have to wait for parish records to go online - if any survive from Yaxley.

Joshua Leeder b. 1831, Yaxley, Suffolk and his Irish Elizabeth/Mary Elizabeth Armstrong b 1832 (resident 1861 onwards in Amaranth, Dufferin, Ontario, Canada) remain frustratingly elusive with respect to where they got married (not the 1860 Hartismere record!) I can see why other Canadian branches of the family have claimed them.

However: major success with finally tracking down William Leeder/Leader's birth in Yaxley. Turned out to be either 1806 or 1807** - January 25, in Yaxley, and the record clearly confirms that Robert Leader and his wife Margaret late Moy are the parents. That confirms the help which you all gave in pointing me in the right direction.

Our Family Tree is online on my website and this is regularly updated - please see Profile for URL.

Once again - Many Thanks for helping a then Newbie.  :D

** 1806 at top of page and 1807 inserted later - with thanks to JoAnn Clark.
Suffolk Surnames of Interest: Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige/Aldridge

Offline De Tails

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 08 February 18 09:08 GMT (UK) »
Paul said:

I may be a little late on this thread but I find it very interesting. De Tail in one of her posts mentioned Robert Leeder and Hannah from Rattlesden. I have researched this family for many years. Robert married Hannah Sewell in 1818 in Drinkstone. They came to Canada in 1825, with assisted passage, compliments of the parish of Rattlesden. They are the Leeders mentioned as living in Escott and Yonge Townships in Leeds County. This Robert was originally from Elmswell. His great grandfather, Thomas, moved to Elmswell about 1717 and married an Elmswell girl, Ann Markall. He was originally from the village of North Lopham just over the border in Norfolk. I can trace the Lopham Leeders back to the early 1500s.

As mentioned, there were several Leeder families that immigrated to Canada. I've tried to see if I could connect those families to mine but haven't had much luck. Looking at trees on ancestry it appears their descendents aren't really sure where their Leeders originated. From the Canadian census records I'm aware of the ones you have mentioned, including Robert and Jane.

Based on my research, though, it seems that a large majority of the English Leeders started in western Norfolk. That seems to be where the name is most common. Although it isn't a common name there are just enough to cause a lot of confusion.

Paul

I have spent considerable time in tracking down and trying to eliminate all Joshua Leeder/Leaders in England who weren't the pauper/cripple who apparently went to Canada. In the end, and in trying to trace the parents of Robert Leader/Leader bap. 1766, I have ended up working on what has become a "reconstruction of families" exercise and I only wish I had remembered what Paul said back then! He's quite right, all links *seem* to lead north! At this rate I'm going to end up with a one-name study!

"They" did try to warn me that this is a potentially addictive hobby!  ;D
Suffolk Surnames of Interest: Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige/Aldridge