Author Topic: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia  (Read 12009 times)

Offline Smokey807

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 16:32 GMT (UK) »
 Forgot to mention that I am also waiting for a reply from the London Central Library for an obituary pertaining to Archibald John Sproston and have asked for obits for the other family members as well. Im hoping the obit, if there is one, will add some new information and clear up the family relation.

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 17:14 GMT (UK) »
Sprostons in Yarmouth Norfolk ...

Widowed Lavinia Sproston is in the 1901, mistranscribed as Louisa at Anc'y, with daughters Constance 13, Florence 9 and Annie 4, in Great Yarmouth, all born there. See also in 1911. She was 38 in 1901 (born c1862-3) and so could be the mother of Eva born c1881. There is no identifiable marriage of a Sproston to a Lavinia to fit; in case of mistranscriptions by FreeBMD, there are no Sproston marriages in Norfolk before Constance marries in 1908. Lavinia H Sproston died in Newcastle in early 1924 at age 62.

There is no birth for the Constance Mary S Sproston who married in 1908 in Yarmouth.
Nor is there a birth for daughter Florence c1891-2, but Florence S Sproston married in Yarmouth in 1915.
There is also no birth for Annie Sproston c1896-7.

Might there be a series of births, including an Eva, with the same surname, possibly starting with S, to match all these daughters?

Constance Mary S Westgate was born in 1887 in Yarmouth.
Florence Stanley Westgate was born in Yarmouth in 1892.
No Annie ... but
Eva Stanley Westgate was born in March quarter 1882 in Yarmouth.

Lavinia Harriet Westgate was born in 1865 in Yarmouth.

Archibald Stanley Westgate was born in Yarmouth in December quarter 1885.

I think we have found Eva and Archibald.

Now -- why they were all called Sproston ... ;) One would think the father's surname was Stanley, since it recurs as a given name among the children.

(A Lavinia Harriet Leese married a Henry Sproston in 1874 in Wolstanton and is in Audley in 1881, and seems to be mere coincidence.)

I can't find Lavinia / the children in 1871, 1881 or 1891, so far.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 17:17 GMT (UK) »
And here we are in 1891 in Great Yarmouth

James Stanley    42 - agent, born Stepney
V Stanley    29 - born Yarmouth
Eva Stanley    9
John Stanley    7
Arch Stanley    5
Connie Stanley    3


An Arthur John Westgate was born in Steyning reg dist in 1904, and I don't see him anywhere after that.

An Arthur J Westgate aged 64 (c1884-5) died in Yarmouth in early 1949; I wonder whether he was the John in the 1891 household.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline Smokey807

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 19:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for looking at Spronston's of Yarmouth. I am unclear of the connection you make of Lavinia with the family I am researching. Are you suggesting that Lavinia was the wife of George's brother James born 1843 Stepney who disappears after the 1871 census. There are no brothers called Henry Sproston that I could find.Your research shows that Lavinia was born 1862-3, quite young to be James wife. I see you have her married to James Stanley and that among her children are an Eva Stanley and an Archibald Stanley with birth places and years of birth that coincide fairly well to the Eva and Archibald I am looking for. Are you suggesting that Lavinia's husband James died and that Lavinia married James Spronston who adopted her children and renamed them Spronston?  But how does the surname of Westgate fit in. I see the connection you have made between the use of the Westgate name to the Stanley name regarding the children but Im not sure if we are on the right track or off on a tangent here . Please clarify.

Something else to consider is that we have already established a physical connection to Tunbridge Wells of George who has a fishmongers shop in the town in 1901 with an Archibald John Sproston from the 1911 T. Wells census and 1918 patent advertisment. And from the 1901 T. Wells census we find Eva Sproston (niece) living with George the fishmonger, with both Archibald and Eva giving birth places  of Yarmough,Norfolk/Hampshire. It seems to me that the presence of Archibald and Eva in Tunbridge Wells perhaps suggests that their father had died and that George was looking out for them. The fact that Archibald was travelling with George from London to Paris when the plane crashed in 1924 is another indication of their closeness. Any comments on this?

We still need to make a clear connection between George and his brothers to Eva and Archibald, as I don't quite see it yet.


Offline Smokey807

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 20:11 GMT (UK) »
I was thinking that obtaining the will of Archibald John Sproston might be useful in seeing not only the distribution of his estate ,but more importantly to me, how his relatives/beneficiaries are identified in the will and what relation they are to him. I havnt tried getting wills before but I see that wills before 1858 can be seen online but it appears after that date I would have to order the will for a fee from the London Probate Dept.  Is this correct?

Does anyone know of a "free" online source for a will pertaining to a 1924 death and probate in London?

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 20:40 GMT (UK) »
Smokey, I have no idea how Eva and Archibald Westgate, evidently the children of Lavinia Westgate and James Stanley, came to be called Sproston. (btw, Lavinia Westgate and James Stanley were not married -- which is why her children's births were registered as Westgate, several of them with Stanley as a given name, a common indication that the parents were unmarried, the surname as given name indicating the father. I have so far been unable to find any other trace of James Stanley. Lavinia calling herself a widow after 1891 could simply be a public representation meant to provide respectability, when actually she and her children's father, or she and a subsequent partner, were simply estranged.)

I just think that there can be little doubt that they ARE Eva Sproston and Archibald Sproston in the 1901 census.

Sometimes it simply does no good to search for names when people simply changed their names at will, for a whole variety of reasons. Looking for the people is what has to be done -- their personal characteristics: usually their given names regardless of surname, their dates and places of birth, relationships among them: e.g., here, an Eva and an Archibald, born in the right place at the right time -- who are sister and brother. The one pair is born in the 1880s and is present in the 1891 census and then disappears from all records; the other pair emerges full-blown from nowhere in the 1901 census. This is simply too much coincidence; that combination is unique in the records to these two pairs, which are virtually necessarily the same people.

Eva and Archibald Westgate may have been related to George Sproston somehow, or he may have had some other reason for, perhaps, making them his heirs / having them adopt his surname. So far I have no idea how Lavinia and her children came to be calling themselves Sproston sometime between the birth of youngest child Annie and the 1901 census.

Meanwhile, I agree that all the approaches you are considering are worthwhile.

Again, I think it would really help us if you could explain a little of your interest in whoever it is here -- there is always a reason for an investigation like this, usually a connection with one or another person in the saga. You don't have to if you prefer not to, of course! but it might help to know what it is that is actually known about at least one person involved.

edit - have a look here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=666303.msg5118285#msg5118285
I was just explaining to someone else how I figured out who my gr-grfather really was -- after discovering he did not exist before his 1883 marriage in London when he was already in his 30s. It turned out his surname (which has been passed on to his grx3 grandchildren at this point) was fake. One of the coincidences that helped me figure it out was finding that he had a sister who also adopted the fake name, which helped to identify the real family: Edward and Alice Moonwalk (as I call them in that post) who were formerly Edward and Alice Smith, each pair born in the same places and at the same times as the other, and each pair with a father whose given name was the same as the other's. Very similar to the Westgate/Sprostons in this tale!
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 05 November 13 20:54 GMT (UK) »
From this I looked for Yarmouth,Norfolk on Ancestry and found only Yarmouth, Hampshire  (Hampshire is where A.J.Sproston) said he was born in the 1911 census so this led me to believe that Eva was Archibalds sister with Eva born abt 1881 and Archibald (based on the crash article) born 1885  (1924-age 39).
I'm not understanding this bit -- Archibald's stated place of birth was Hampstead, not Hampshire. (And I think that was probably just him putting on airs -- Hampstead is a ritzy part of London -- or someone else reporting his info inaccurately; I think his age should be read as 30, also; it seems likely that the hotellier assumed some of this info.) There is a Yarmouth on the Isle of Wight, off Hampshire (with a population of about 600 around the year 1900), but I don't think that, or Hampshire, comes into anything here at all.

Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, is a major population centre in Norfolk.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 06 November 13 01:44 GMT (UK) »
Are you suggesting that Lavinia was the wife of George's brother James born 1843 Stepney who disappears after the 1871 census.
I hadn't focused on this bit -- and indeed, it seems quite possible that James Stanley, of whom I can find no other trace, is James Sproston under a new name.

You are really placing too much store in formalities here -- people cohabited without marrying, people took on their partners' children without adopting them (which in fact was not possible before 1928 anyway), people changed their names when the whim took them (and women adopted the surnames of their partners), people added to or subtracted from their ages depending on their mood, or the ages of their partners, for instance.

Kind of as they do today!

Yes, James Stanley in 1891 was a good deal older than Lavinia Westgate -- it being far from uncommon at the time, as it had long been and still is, for older men to take up with younger women. But it could be a reason why, if he was James Sproston, he minimized his age somewhat: making himself 42 rather than the 50 he really was (his birth was actually registered in 1840 in Stepney?).

And well whaddaya know: a James Sproston aged 59 died in Yarmouth in June quarter 1900.
He is a perfect match for George's brother, and there he is dying in Yarmouth.

So I think you solved that puzzle after all! James Stanley was James Sproston.

I eventually found why my gr-grfather changed his name, when another gr-grchild of his reported what his mother had known: that he took unilateral leave of the British military as a young man after five years in India rather than be sent to Afghanistan. The timing coincided perfectly with what I had figured out years before: he disappeared in 1873, and the Second Anglo-Afgan war started in 1878. So I had the reason for the name change, just not the reason for the name.

You need a reason for both James Sproston's name change and the name chosen. What we do have now is that we have identified Eva and Archibald, and have a good working hypothesis for how they came by the name Sproston:

Their father was James Sproston, going by the name James Stanley, and cohabiting with but not married to Lavinia Westgate.

Since the children all got the surname Stanley in their names, and apparently went by that surname, one wonders whether Lavinia was aware of the name shift on James's part before his death.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Sproston -Langton-Prescott families of London & Australia
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 06 November 13 01:51 GMT (UK) »
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27218/pages/4880

Re JAMES SPROSTON, Deceased. ...
NOTICE is hereby given, that all creditors and other persons having any claims or demands against the estate of James Sproston, late of Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, Fish Merchant, deceased (who died on the 31st day of May, 1900, intestate, and letters of administration to whose estate were granted by the Norwich District Probate Registry on the 13th day of July, 1900, to George Sproston, the natural and lawful brother and one of the next-of-kin) are required ...

So George was the administrator of his brother James's estate, and took care of James's children, including Eva and Archibald.


Also, here is the notice published regarding claims against Archibald John Sproston's estate in 1927:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/33334/pages/7789
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?