Author Topic: 50 Marr place  (Read 3253 times)

Offline Noddy_Kennoy

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50 Marr place
« on: Saturday 23 November 13 01:23 GMT (UK) »
Hello, I wish you all well. I am starting off in 50 Mar Place, which is a drive through road now across Mar Place and adjoins two roundabouts at each end, if I am not mistaken from my last visit. I have never seen any photographs of the building, but I do recognise 50 Mar place, on the opposite side of the road towards the leafy knoll from the satellite pictures.

I have been trying to unravel this story about my Grand mother Mary Crawford for a good part of my life. Mary from my research so far in Scottish and English records was born in Ayrshire or Cheshire England around 1886 so I have worked out, which would make her around Thirty years of age in the midst of the First World War of 1916. This heavily pregnant female was either a regional person who knew where to go just far enough away from home (50 Mar Place ) to give birth to a love child or this soul travelled up by train I think From Altrincham, Cheshire, England. ( I know of no other way in this condition thus far ). Mary on the 16th of July gave birth to my farther at this address, which over time I have been told by an elderly local person was owned/rented by a female who was a midwife by trade, with other rooms being used for lodgings. Within the next week Mary has registered the birth on this date and address, the name given was Frank Worth Crawford, signing herself as mother; in those days of Scotland a woman did not have to give the name of the farther, the record for paternity is blank. I have no reason to believe otherwise that the farther was a Frank Worth. Mary then left 50 Marr Place and Headed back to Altrincham, Cheshire, presumably employed there ( Note :- here as a domestic at Altrincham, General Hospital ). Back in Altrincham  and a few days later Mary gives Frank away to a Margaret Naughton with a spouse John, residence Chapel Street, Altrincham, Cheshire. Margaret had sadly lost her own Child Michael and was being treated at the hospital where Mary worked. Mary popped in and out of Franks life for a few years ,but always remains removed. Then after these few years nothing is heard of Mary ever again.

Firstly I feel welcome and at home here as son of Scotland and without knowing any of the above studied at Stirling University. I am generally asking for assistance if any older members who may have a glimmer of a tale like this or may recall anything about this as such a kin and close community. I am looking for a picture of the property, trying to understand what the property was used for, I have been told a midwife lived there and that maybe is why Mary went there, Also being single believing her birth family was needed was a driving force or the reason why she came here Alloa, to family but far enough away from them. From my research I can fit a very neat little thing here but can not get to the start of Mary other than an 1886 birth to fit with two Frank worth's. One Frank worth went on to marry and the other sadly died serving in the First World War. The main reason I am here is I can not make the connection evidence wise as my trail has gone cold. Mary was Here as the Birth is registered in Scotland. Mary Certainly was in Altrincham as that's where frank and the Naughton family are registered. A few Mary Crawfords obviously were born in Ayrshire at the time and later but to much later would miss probably the Worths. I have three families that moved to Cheshire but can not connect the move back Ayrshire and or to Mary. I do trust you have found this interesting. If anyone is needing help in the Manchester or Liverpool Area please send me a mail. Thanks also to the Mods.

Les

Leslie



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Offline MonicaL

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Re: 50 Marr place
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 November 13 18:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi Les

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

Wish I could help further instantly...but I am not seeing anything yet  :-\

For the period you are looking at, I hoped that you could pick something up on 50 Marr Place on the Valuation Rolls here on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - searching only by address. But, I cannot seem to get anything for either 1915 or 1920, which are the two later databases currently available online. I searched only for Marr Pl*, but still nothing showed.

You are not local are you. I think these types of searches are likely best carried out personally at a local archives/family history library which should have other material such as electoral rolls and post office directories etc.

The minute you trip into the 20th C, online records can start to thin.

Monica
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Offline Flattybasher9

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Re: 50 Marr place
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 November 13 18:38 GMT (UK) »
Mar Place is on Google Street view, but there is quite a lot of newer buildings there. Sauchie hall (Community centre) is at the end.
This is a confusing place. Where the community centre is, each side of the road seem to have a different name.
Further down past the roundabout, there is Alloa Health Centre, which Google Street view is showing as 50 Mar Place, Alloa, but is heading it as 2 B9096 Alloa.

Regards

Malky

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 50 Marr place
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 November 13 18:49 GMT (UK) »
Ah...Malky! Mar Place, not Marr Place  ;)

Going back to the Valuation Rolls on Scotlands People, 50 Mar Place shows 2 entries in 1920 and 1915.

Noddy_Kennoy, you might want to consider checking the images out for these online to see what and who shows at that address for those two years...

Monica  :)

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Offline MonicaL

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Re: 50 Marr place
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 November 13 19:33 GMT (UK) »
Won't necessarily help for later years (in fact I don't think Bowden shows at all on searches), but this is what shows for 1901:

Thomas Bowden 51, carter b. Crossford, Fife
Maria Bowden 49
Ellen Bowden 23
Robert Bowden 18
Mary Bowden 16
Francis Bowden 14
Andrew Bowden 8

Address: Mar Pl 50, Alloa

Monica
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Offline Noddy_Kennoy

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Re: 50 Marr place
« Reply #5 on: Monday 25 November 13 21:35 GMT (UK) »


Hello Monica,

Please do not think me rude not replying to you immediately, I have been reading other peoples plights as well as my own on here as people do and looking for old notes for me to reply to you. Sadly I am not a local person, however at Stirling I had time to  research sometimes. My Mother was alive then and was very concerned about me pushing forward on my mission and uncovering something dreadful. My mother passed away in the 80's so have left it till older myself to pick up the threads again.

Interestingly you have quite shocked me  (Not unpleasantly) as I thought It was my unseasoned experience in searching. Like yourself in the valuation records there is nothing showing after 1911 like you have pointed out. This point is one of the many reasons why I have had to keep coming back to Alloa for explanations, as, if it was a crime it could not be better planned. For those reading this I trust you find it interesting, fascinating and amusing. Interestingly, probably sadly, I used to walk up Marr place, go around the round-a-bout down the other side and back up again and around the other way. I have spent a couple of times chatting and I met then, some elderly people in the late 90's on the street and in one of the local pubs. From what I have learned Marr Place then in the 1900's only went so far along its original length, in the 1960's it was extended like a bye pass to take traffic away from the town. Marr Place I understand was an actual place, Place. I was told that no 50 was owned or rented out to a midwife who also took in borders. Another lady told me the rest of the square was pulled down and was left barren, as that was what happened to a fair number of properties then all over the U.K. What has startled me your view and from my notes that no 50 was on the end. The fellow told me that around there was not a good place to live and no 50 had to be demolished due to disrepair late 1916 and probably fell just outside the valuation list I think then was 1916. So a step in the right direction and thanks.

Les. 

Offline MonicaL

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Re: 50 Marr place
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 November 13 21:51 GMT (UK) »
Times were so hard then, Les, weren't they. We know that, from learning the history of the people and their living. How hard (harrowing) it must have been in those times to travel so far away from home to have your baby, with strangers. Hardly seems possible when we think of how things are today in the early 21st C...

Many people leave researching until a loved one has passed as things can be upsetting from people's pasts can't they.

Have you looked at the valuation rolls for the period (searching as Mar rather than Marr)? However, it sounds like you have already done a lot of research on foot from what you say and have a fairly good idea of the events around that time.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk