Author Topic: (*Completed with thanks*)Which test for a female line  (Read 4082 times)

Offline Revolution

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(*Completed with thanks*)Which test for a female line
« on: Saturday 23 November 13 05:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Folks

My wife wants to take a test to see her 'deep ancestry' but I thought it a good opportunity to also also see if there are any recent genetic matches so wanted to have a more inclusive test.

Ive read the comparisons between the products but its still confusing for me.

I think Ive narrowed it down to:

mtFullSequence from FTDNA which is on special for 169$ which covers the deep ancestry plus more modern matching and 23andme which costs 99$ plus 65$ postage.

The Geno 2.0 appears to only be deep ancestry and is also on special for $159.95

Any thought about the two options - have I correctly compared them?
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline supermoussi

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 November 13 12:34 GMT (UK) »
Maternal DNA does not really allow for recent genetic matches as the mutations occur too infrequently. Any maternal Haplogroup you find yourself to be in will likely age from several thousand years back, unlike paternal mutations which can easily occur every generation.

You should also consider National Geographic's Geno 2 test:-

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/best-sellers/home/geno-2.0---genographic-project-participation-and-dna-ancestry-kit
http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Genographic_Project

which is currently $159 and includes an autosomal test as well as a maternal test and also one of BritainsDNA's maternal tests:-

http://www.britainsdna.com/products/mtdna

The most detailed of these test is the $169/$199 FTDNA FGS test but this rarely yields any more interesting information (unless a string of numbers and letters is of interest to you) than the other tests, and never will imo*. The best value test is the National Geographic one as as well as finding out your mtdna Haplogroup you will also get your autosomal DNA analysed (and if you are a man also your paternal DNA).

* 1) European maternal DNA is very spread out compared to European paternal DNA which is much more geographically specific**
 2) paternal DNA contains mutations in every generation or so which allows estimates of migration paths whereas the spread out nature of maternal DNA and distance between mutations (thousands of years) is very random.

** One theory is that most of our maternal European ancestors were in Europe much before most of our paternal ancestors. The theory goes that men of Haplogroup R1b only entered Europe 6-7000 years ago and by one means or the other replaced the older Haplogroup G2 men, and stole their women. Having been in Europe for a longer time, and perhaps being hunter gatherers rather than farmers, means the maternal groups have scattered over wider areas than their "younger" male counterparts whose descendants can be quite easily pinpointed today.

Offline Revolution

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 November 13 22:11 GMT (UK) »
Thanks supermoussi for the great info. Ill have another look at the Nat Geo product and catch it while its on special.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline supermoussi

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 24 November 13 16:38 GMT (UK) »
Oh btw, there is one "recent ancestry" use for the maternal tests actually.

Say if you research your maternal line and suspect your Grt Grt Grandmother was a Mary SMITH of Puddletown but are not 100% sure, if you found another direct maternal descendant of Mary SMITH on GenesReunited, but through a different daughter, you could both take an mtdna test and compare Haplogroups.

There are so many different Haplogroups that it is very unlikely that two people picked at random would share the same one, so if you match the other descendant of Mary SMITH then you would have 99% confirmation that you have got your papertrail correct.

If you don't match however, then you know for sure that one or the other of you has made an error in your papertrail and, until you work out which, it would be a waste of time researching this line further back.

Hope this makes sense!


Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 November 13 19:39 GMT (UK) »
The tests from the Genographic Project and BritainsDNA will only give your wife a haplogroup assignment but will not allow her to search the databases for genealogical matches. You do get a very refined haplogroup assigment from the Genographic Project and you can transfer your results to FTDNA, but this still doesn't allow you to participate in the matching database because the Geno 2.0 test looks at selected SNPs across the mt genome so the results are not compatible. According to FTDNA if you have an exact full sequence match 95% of the time you will share a common ancestor within the last  22 generations (about 550 years). 5% of matches will fall outside this timeframe and they could potentially go back a very long way. 550 years is also a very deep timeframe for finding matches on the maternal line where the surname keeps changing every generation upon marriage. As an alternative your wife could just take the basic mtDNAPlus test which is now very cheap. See my blog post for background:

http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/mitochondrial-dna-testing-at-new-low.html

Some people with common DNA signatures have literally thousands of matches with this test but if you have a rarer signature then the test can sometimes have a genealogical application if used in combination with documentary evidence.

Your wife might also like to consider the 23andMe test. This gives an mtDNA haplogroup but she would also benefit from the health and traits information and the ability to find matches in 23andMe's DNA Relatives database. There is also the Family Finder test from FTDNA which works on the same principles but is purely a genealogical DNA test. See Tim Janzen's autosomal DNA testing comparison chart:

http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart
Researching: Ayshford, Berryman, Bodger, Boundy, Cruse, Cruwys, Dillon, Faithfull, Kennett, Keynes, Ratty, Tidbury, Trask, Westcott, Wiggins, Woolfenden.

Offline Revolution

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #5 on: Monday 25 November 13 08:42 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the responses.

So I am looking at two tests. The Deep genealogical and a genealogical match such as the FTDNA Family Finder test.

The 23andme is prohibitively expensive for the postage.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 November 13 16:16 GMT (UK) »
So basically, it's pointless the females amongst us having our DNA tested, is it?

Offline supermoussi

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 26 November 13 07:41 GMT (UK) »
So basically, it's pointless the females amongst us having our DNA tested, is it?

No but it is mainly a deep ancestry test unlike paternal tests. All mtDNA tests will tell you which branch of the female tree you are in, i.e. you might be H5a1 or U5a1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mitochondrial_DNA_haplogroup

and if you take an FGS test you will find extra mutations that may extend your definition to, say, H5a1c1a, but do not improve your understanding of where your female line came from or who you are related to recently. For example if you found you were H5a you would know you were in a common European Haplogroup, etc., but what would you deduce from testing to a lower level? Look at the H5 project and look at the differences between the close groups to get an idea for yourself, i.e. what difference can you deduce between subgroups H5a1c, H5a1c1a & H5a1c2?

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtdna_h5/default.aspx?section=mtresults



Offline LizzieW

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Re: Which test for a female line
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 26 November 13 13:29 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, but as all I really want to know is whether my paternal g.g.grandmother was Spanish or Portuguese, I don't think I'll bother paying for my DNA to be tested.  ;D