Author Topic: Northamptonshire Regiment  (Read 2105 times)

Offline cashew

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Re: Albert Denton birth 1893 Bedford
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 27 November 13 22:13 GMT (UK) »
To cut to the chase, and omit the reasoning on this for now, the bottom line on this is, IF you know for 100% certain, provably, and beyond any possible doubt or error, that the man who died in Wales in 1951 definitely WAS your grandfather,...then,...he wasn't the Albert Hugh whom you found in the census who was born in Bedford in 1898,...he WAS,...this man...

Albert Denton born in Bedford Oct/November/December 1893

That's his birth registration date and parents have 6 weeks in which to register a birth, and so he could have been born as early as mid August.

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Offline Bethan

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Re: Northamptonshire Regiment
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 27 November 13 22:39 GMT (UK) »
It definitely was the one he died in Feb 51 in Glamorgan, and he was born in Bedford, the problem I have is finding which regiment he served with, because although he was in Bedford in 1911, we are not sure when he came to Wales and therefore it is possible that he joined a Welsh regiment, but now that I have a better idea of his birthdate it might make the search easier, thank you so much for all your help, I might have to get back to you if I get stuck,    Best Wishes Bethan
Denton,Barfoot,Emery in Bedford.Howells of Pembroke,Davies of Rhymney,Jones of Carmarthen.

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Offline cashew

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Re: Northamptonshire Regiment
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 27 November 13 23:17 GMT (UK) »
In some of those military records a particular individual can only be definitely identified by means of their exact year and place of birth, both of which you now have.

With any genealogical enquiry message, whether military related or not, it's important to state not only what information you already have, (and whether or not it's proven or assumed ), but also your source, for example, documentary, hearsay, family knowledge.

For example, IF, your source for his regiment was from mum, and IF she was told that by her father or the family, then that probably was his regiment, either of enlistment or discharge, or both.

On the other hand, if you just assumed that he had enlisted in the regiment local to where he was either born or was living in WW1, then it ain't necessarily so.

Men could and did enlist in non local regiments, or in the artillery, or engineers, or other Corps.

They could enlist in the unit of their choice, but also, either at the time of their enlistment, or later in their service, they could be sent to serve in a different unit if manpower needs required that.

Some men served in several different regiments and or Corps and service numbers weren't unique to an individual so some people had several service numbers.

All of their medal record cards survived, but they only show unit, service number, and sometimes date of early discharge or death.

The major proportion of WW1 service records were destroyed in the WW2 Blitz.

So it isn't always possible to prove that a person on a particular medal record card was a particular individual.

His older brother Frank served in the Royal Engineers and was at the same address as below in Bedford after his discharge.

Offline cashew

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Re: Denton 1911 census Bedford
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 28 November 13 02:05 GMT (UK) »
Moderator comment: only information available in the free indexes may be posted on RootsChat.


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Offline Bethan

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Re: Northamptonshire Regiment
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 28 November 13 14:31 GMT (UK) »
Thanks a lot Cashew,this is the right family, my mother says that there was an older brother Harold as well and she thinks that they all served in the same regiment, so I will have to look at the Royal Engineers, could you tell me if the Royal Engineers was a separate regiment, or were they attached to other regiments?

Thank you so much for all your help

Best wishes Bethan
Denton,Barfoot,Emery in Bedford.Howells of Pembroke,Davies of Rhymney,Jones of Carmarthen.

Offline cashew

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Re: Royal Engineers (R.E.) & Frank Denton R.E.
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 28 November 13 16:25 GMT (UK) »
The Royal Engineers = R.E. wasn't a regiment in the way that an infantry or cavalry regiment was.

It was a Corps, ( pronounced as core ), a Corps can also mean a large subdivision of an army.

In the case of the R.E. it means a separate organisation with specialist skills and duties.

The R.E. laid cables, dug tunnels, built roads, operated water transport, did a whole range of mechanical and constructional tasks, by the end of the war there were nearly 300,000 men in the R.E..

A Private in the R.E. is called a Sapper from an old fashioned word which means to dig, a sap is also another name for a trench or a tunnel.

The R.E. would have operated in separate self contained units, but many of those units would have been attached to, or worked in conjunction with, other army units, such as infantry or artillery units.

http://www.1914-1918.net/cre.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnelling_companies_of_the_Royal_Engineers

http://www.re-museum.co.uk/research/family_history/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Engineers

I'll get back to you about Frank and the others, this is Frank's medal record card below, some of his service documents have also survived so I know this is the same person as the man on the census.

Ah, Sapper, ( Spr.), Frank Denton has two service numbers 522782 in the R.E. and he must also have been in the Territorial unit of the R.E. before WW1 because he also has a number 3319 in the R.E. (T)

He has the British War Medal and the Allied Victory Medal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_medals#World_War_I

I don't suppose that the medals of your maternal grandfather, Albert Denton, are still in the possession of the family, if they were, they would tell you his rank, service number, and unit.

Right click on the document pictures and then select open image or whatever equivalent command your browser uses, in order to display the image separately in full screen.

Right click on the document pictures and select the appropriate browser command in order to download and save them in picture format.

I was about to give you some more info on this, but thanks to the self appointed sheriff below and the rottweiler moderators on here, I'm gone, permanently, good luck with your search, oh and btw, mum was right about Harold.

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Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Northamptonshire Regiment
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 28 November 13 18:48 GMT (UK) »
The number 522782 "belongs" to the 1st East Anglian Field Company, which geographically fits with Frank Denton from Bedfordshire. Most Territorial soldiers serving pre-war mainly served with units in their local area since the service was part time alongside a civilian job. Having said that I am not convinced his numbers are pre-war.

http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_re.htm

By the way, Cashew, I believe we are not permitted to post images from subscription sites here.


Steve.
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918

Offline Stebie9173

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Re: Northamptonshire Regiment
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 28 November 13 18:57 GMT (UK) »
Looking at other records the nearest man I can find for comparative purposes is 3621 and 522790 William Thomas Chessell Brown who enlisted in March 1916. This would suggest that the above Frank Denton enlisted in early 1916.


Note that though he may have trained with the East Anglian Royal Engineers, he could have served overseas with any R.E. unit.


Steve.
Researching : Beeby (Titchmarsh / Peterborough), Brooksbank (Peterborough), Northamptonshire Regiment 1914-1918

Offline Bethan

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Re: Northamptonshire Regiment
« Reply #17 on: Friday 29 November 13 17:41 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Cashew and Stebie for your help, you have given me a lot to work on, not having much luck looking for my grandfather on the library Ancestry though, I don't think the library has the full package,but I will keep on trying

Thank you both again, best wishes Bethan
Denton,Barfoot,Emery in Bedford.Howells of Pembroke,Davies of Rhymney,Jones of Carmarthen.