Author Topic: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan  (Read 28828 times)

Offline The Clackmannan Person

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 25 March 15 18:02 GMT (UK) »
Further to my last post I have found the following which contains at reference that may lead somewhere. This in from a Clackmannan Field Studies Society Newsletter no date but must have been prior to 2000. When my mother died in 2006 I recovered local history stuff from her flat so it is not inconceivable that someone since in the society has done "The life of Tobias Baak."

Star House, 25 Kirkgate, Alloa
The sundial is a remarkable 5 foot deep sandstone panel also described in McGibbon and Ross Vol 5 P 37.
John Dunbar in "The Historic Architecture of Scotland" writes of 25 Kirkgate as a "small but well proportioned but carefully detailed house."
George Scott Moncrieff lauds the finely pointed ashlar front in "Stones of Scotland."
The house was occupied by Bauchop's (or Baak as he was better known) descendants until being bought by a sea captain. Prom 1762 till 1786 the house gave service as a Divinity Hall of the General Associate Synod (seceders). C. 1900 the frontage was altered for the purposes of a shop. The front door used to be in the west facing wall of the North wing of the house. The present frontage is shown in a postcard of some 70-80 years ago of the "Theological Hall" as having a window where the door is now. The old door is blocked up but the posts remain.

Tobias Bauchop.
The life of this worthy citizen of Alloa was well recorded in 1874 by John Crawford in "Memorials of the Parish of Alloa."
Tobias was the son of Thomas Bauchop, both were masons to the Earl of Mar. He also had a brother who was a mason. In 1684 he married Margaret Lindsay, a very strong minded woman. In so doing he forsook his native church for that of "ye barberous, perjured ceremonymongers." When he came to build Star House it was considered that the evil looking face on the sundial was the only authentic petrified portrait of Old Nick in existence.
The Session records show that on March 14 1680 Tobias Baak was one of five masons requested to estimate for repairing the old Parish Church. Jointly with John Buchanan he submitted this bill of quantities.
Good hunting.


Offline Reiver

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #28 on: Friday 27 March 15 18:18 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Clackmannan Person for the additional information from the Field Centre.  I've been back over some of my old ground but also established some material that helps me anyway :) .

From the Old Parish Registers a Tobias Bachop married a Margaret Lapslay on the 8th February 1684 in the parish of Alloa. The only birth for a Tobias Bachop that I could find over a long period was one who was baptised in 1674.   Surely he couldn't have married aged 10ish (could he?). Two years on from their marriage Tobias and Margaret had a son baptised whom they called John - 1st May 1686 . This time Margaret was Lapslie.  Incidentally Lapsley (etc) is at odds with the Margaret Lindsay mentioned in Crawfords 'Memorials of the Parish of Alloa' of 1874 which you referred to.
Birth years for 'my/our' Tobias suggest 1710 to 1714.  In 1710 to 1714 Tobias, the mason, would have been married some 26 years when 'my/our' Tobias was baptised.

i considered in an earlier post that the parents of 'my/our' Tobias may have been a John Bauchop and Helen Henderson.  I cannot find a marriage but there are six baptisms shown to them  in the following years -
1696 Andrew, 1701 John, 1704 John (as 1701), Thomas 1706, Tobias 1710.
Other possible parents were Tobias and Jean Arthur. There is a marriage between a Tobias Baak and Jean Arthur in December 1701.  Children?;-
1703 Catharine, 1706 Robert, 1711 Janet, 1712 Tobias
The third suggestion for Tobias's parents were John Bauchop and Anna Mortimer. Again I cannot find a marriage but children;-
1707 Margaret, 1711 Anne,  1713 Isabel,  1714 Tobias

I don't think I'm any closer to the mason of Alloa  :) :)

One final thing I found of interest in the light of your comment that Tobias made about forsaking his native church.  The last few words of his marriage record  reads ' . . . . by . . . order from the Bishop of Edinburgh'. 

Reiver


Offline argyllshiregirl

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 06 May 15 22:05 BST (UK) »
Hello,

 I am surprised to find myself interested in anything Clackmannan connected, or in any of these surnames, but I have just found a missing Argyllshire relative that married a descendant of this family.

My grandmother's cousin, Mary Stuart MCDOUGALL b. 1870 in Invernesshire (during a brief period when her parents, both natives of Mull, lived there) married Alexander Kirk BAXTER. He was the son of Alexander Kirk BAXTER (Senior) and a BEGBIE. The elder Alexander BAXTER was the son of Robert BAXTER and Mary Ann Baxter KIRK. Robert and Mary Ann must have been some sort of cousins???

I further found that Mary Ann Baxter (KIRK) BAXTER (what a name!) was the daughter of David KIRK and Margaret PENMAN, whom I see was perhaps a daughter of Michael PENMAN and Mary BAUCHOP, if I'm following this correctly.

The name Kirkgate is interesting too ... possibly named for all those KIRKs around the area?

Mary
Fletcher of Glen Orchy, Argyll, McGregor of Argyll and Balquhidder, Perth, Mathison, Laidlaw, Forsyth of Dumfriesshire, McMillan, Johnston, Galbraith, Nicholson of Argyll, McPhail, McArthur, McKinnon, McLean, Paterson from Isle of Mull

Offline Iandj

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 06 May 15 22:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Mary,

Some of that is right but I think you may have confused two Mary Ann Kirks. Robert Baxter (1802-1887) and my gg-aunt, Mary Ann Kirk (1804-1875) married in 1826 and had seven children, the youngest being Alexander Kirk Baxter (b.1839). Mary Ann Kirk's older brother, David Kirk (1795-1875), married Margaret Penman (1802-1885) in 1822 and they had 10 children, including Mary Ann Baxter Kirk (1842-1911). So you will see that the dates of the two Mary Anns are a generation apart. The younger Mary Ann Kirk was my great-grandmother; she and my great-grandfather moved to Denny in the mid-1860s. Robert Baxter died at Ayr in 1885 so the family was surprisingly mobile.

You are right, however, that Margaret Penman was the daughter of Michael Penman and Mary Bauchop. And you have helped me fill in a few blanks from the line of Alexander Kirk Baxter Snr for which I thank you.

Regards
Ian
Iandj

Dumfriesshire: Martin, Lorrain(e), Smart, Muir
Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire: Lorrain, Turnbull, Riddell, Elliot(t), Ker(r), Scott
Lancashire, Cheshire: Johnston, Rutter, Barrow
Ayrshire, Lanarkshire: Jamieson, Glasgow, Thomson, Riddet, Blair
Clackmannan, Fife, Stirling: Simpson, Kirk, Stein, Pryde, Penman, Hempseed, Bauchop
Kincardineshire: Craig, Stewart


Offline argyllshiregirl

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 07 May 15 00:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian,

Aha, thank you - that makes more sense now!

Alexander Kirk BAXTER (the younger) married my grandmother's cousin, Mary Stuart McDOUGALL in 1902 in Maryhill, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland. The family went to Dunedin, New Zealand. According to the website of their granddaughter, a well known NZ children's author, Alexander was born in NZ but went to Scotland (the birthplace of his parents), married Mary and brought her to NZ. Not sure how all of that came about but it's interesting.

http://tauranga.kete.net.nz/tauranga_local_history/topics/show/1408-lynley-stuart-weeks-1941

Mary

Fletcher of Glen Orchy, Argyll, McGregor of Argyll and Balquhidder, Perth, Mathison, Laidlaw, Forsyth of Dumfriesshire, McMillan, Johnston, Galbraith, Nicholson of Argyll, McPhail, McArthur, McKinnon, McLean, Paterson from Isle of Mull

Offline Iandj

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 07 May 15 12:02 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Mary.

I've been able to follow this through now, add a few dates and check out the link you posted. Fascinating!

It seems that Lynley Dodd (nee Weeks) is my 4th cousin and that she has had a very successful career.

Regards
Ian
Iandj

Dumfriesshire: Martin, Lorrain(e), Smart, Muir
Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire: Lorrain, Turnbull, Riddell, Elliot(t), Ker(r), Scott
Lancashire, Cheshire: Johnston, Rutter, Barrow
Ayrshire, Lanarkshire: Jamieson, Glasgow, Thomson, Riddet, Blair
Clackmannan, Fife, Stirling: Simpson, Kirk, Stein, Pryde, Penman, Hempseed, Bauchop
Kincardineshire: Craig, Stewart

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 07 May 15 20:29 BST (UK) »
Kirkgate = gate/gait is a street. Churchstreet.

Skoosh.

Offline Iandj

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 07 May 15 20:41 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Skoosh.  I was going to say that I suspect Kirkgate is more to do with the kirk near Bauchop House than with the Kirk family. As a streetname it seems quite common in the Clackmannan/Fife area

Ian
Iandj

Dumfriesshire: Martin, Lorrain(e), Smart, Muir
Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire: Lorrain, Turnbull, Riddell, Elliot(t), Ker(r), Scott
Lancashire, Cheshire: Johnston, Rutter, Barrow
Ayrshire, Lanarkshire: Jamieson, Glasgow, Thomson, Riddet, Blair
Clackmannan, Fife, Stirling: Simpson, Kirk, Stein, Pryde, Penman, Hempseed, Bauchop
Kincardineshire: Craig, Stewart

Offline Iandj

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Re: Tobias Bauchop married Janet Vanan
« Reply #35 on: Monday 11 May 15 21:27 BST (UK) »
It has just dawned on me that the explanation, which has eluded me for so long, for baptising my g-grandmother Mary Ann Baxter Kirk must lie in this close connection with her aunt, Mary Ann Baxter (nee Kirk). Till now I have never been able to fathom where the 'Baxter' name came from. Perhaps her aunt was the godmother or the midwife?

However, Mary Ann Baxter Kirk and my g-grandfather, Alexander Simpson, seem to have followed the example by naming my grandmother, Janet Miller Simpson. I have never found a Miller in this branch of the family, so I wonder if it could be the name of a friend or midwife or godmother.

Has anyone any other thoughts?

Regards
Ian
Iandj

Dumfriesshire: Martin, Lorrain(e), Smart, Muir
Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire: Lorrain, Turnbull, Riddell, Elliot(t), Ker(r), Scott
Lancashire, Cheshire: Johnston, Rutter, Barrow
Ayrshire, Lanarkshire: Jamieson, Glasgow, Thomson, Riddet, Blair
Clackmannan, Fife, Stirling: Simpson, Kirk, Stein, Pryde, Penman, Hempseed, Bauchop
Kincardineshire: Craig, Stewart