Philip CLEAR famous Veryan headstone but not in burial book + marriage query

[JOOBLES]

OK, I'll do that now.

[JaneyCanuck]

I was editing my reply because when I went to look for general contact info for the site I couldn't find any. Check above for my new suggestion. 

[JOOBLES]

RESULT - I have a copy of the original burial entry now.

The OPC emailed me one so that's one query resolved.

Thankyou.

[JOOBLES]

Completed, thanks.

[KolaKube8]

On Philip Clare's Army papers his period of service in the West Indies commenced 3rd April 1819. If Daughter Julia was born in 1819, does this mean she was a premature birth or was her mother pregnant before arriving in the West Indies ?
I ask this as I am wondering whether Philip & Julia also had a Son - Thomas, born in France about 1819 ? Thomas Clare/Clear is my direct ancestor and the 1851 & 1861 census' state he was born in France, British Subject. Unfortunately I do not know how I would verify his Parents ? Only that Philip was serving in the 32nd Foot Regiment in France at this time and could possibly be his Father. Can anyone please offer any help ?

[..claire..]

Hi

and welcome to Rootschat 

A Thomas Clear married an Elizabeth Williams 12 Mar. 1836, his abode Veryan.

I see there is a John Willliams living with them in 1861, is this the correct family ?

A Thomas Clear and Elizabeth christen a Philip Clear 11 June 1837, residence: Portloe, district Veryan, a shoemaker.

Coincidence ? or maybe they are related to the 'famous' Philip Clear.

There is also a record for Margaret Williams Clear chr. 19 March 1843, res. Portloe. Father, a sailor.

Other records for children can be found using 'Clare'

Source cornwall-opc

claire

[JaneyCanuck]

Hello and welcome, KolaKube8!

Do you have Thomas's marriage certificate? It should give his father's name and occupation, as long as he knew them and reported them accurately (and didn't just state "deceased" for instance).

Basic information is useful to start out with.

In 1861, he is in St Anthony (as Clare), in the Coast Guard Service, with wife Elizebeth c1817; they are together (as Clear) in St Keverne in 1851.

Their eldest child is Margaret, born c1843 in Veryan, which is also where Elizabeth was born.

I'm not finding a likely marriage under either version of the surname, but it seems unlikely it would have been before 1837.
Do you know Elizabeth's surname (e.g. from a child's birth certificate), and have you searched for a marriage at FreeBMD?
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Oh wait, in 1861, Ancestry has inferred her surname from her father in the household: Williams.

So the marriage was 1836 in Kenwyn:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=492250
Rats.

Oh -- Elizabeth's father was John W Williams, a widower, fisherman, in 1861.
Was this the John Williams whom Philip Clear's widow Julia married??

Julia Clear and John Williams married in Veryan:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=771466

so it's looking quite likely that the connection you are suggesting is a good one.

In 1841, Julia Williams c1796 Ireland, and husband John, army pensioner c1786 Cornwall, daughter Julia Ann c1821 foreign parts, and Jane Clear Pomeroy, aged 5, "daughter of a ??", are in Veryan.

But oh well -- I would think this is Elizabeth in 1841, mistranscribed at Anc'y as CLOAR, in Veryan (if Thomas was on vessels, I believe he would not have been recorded in 1841), with a different John Williams:

John Williams 55 ag lab
Judith Williams 55
Elizabeth Clear 25 Ind
Philip Clear 4

A different John Williams -- but a strong indication of a connection with Philip Clear, in the name of her son. His 1837 baptism in Veryan:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1557065
showing father Thomas as a shoemaker ...

The data are the same for the baptism of Margaret Williams Clear in Veryan in 1843:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1557275
i.e. residence Portloe, but he is now a mariner.

So ... it looks to me like there is a strong case for the connection, but that's the best can be said from the data to date, I'd say!


oops, cross-posted with claire, but I'll leave this as it fleshes out some of the details a little more.

Even though the two John Williams-s in question are different ones, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a cousinship there, given the names, ages and location.

[crimea1854]

KolaKube8

The following does not provide any family information on Thomas, but it may help you identify areas to do further research.

As a Coastguard there are a set of extremely good records available as free downloads from the National Archives website (ADM 175 Coastguard Establishment Books). Looking at these Thomas was orginally nominated to the Coastguard Service in 1843 from HMS Ganges. Knowing this I checked the Naval General Service Medal roll, and found he served as an Able Seaman, and in 1847 claimed his medal with the 'Syria 1840' clasp.

His first posting as a CG was to Kingsdown CG Station on 12 June 1843 (ADM 175/7 pdf 116) from where he made the following moves:
29 April 1846 to Poole Harbour (175/7 - 353)
18 Feb 1847 to Coverack (175/7 - 500)
8 June 1855 to St Mawes following promotion to Commissioned Boatman (175/7 - 493)
Discharged 30 June 1867 on pension of £25/9/0/annum.

While at Coverack he was recalled to serve in the Royal Navy during the Crimean War, qualifying for the Baltic Medal as an Able seaman on HMS Royal George.

Perhaps of greater interest to you is his Merchant Seamen's Ticket (151,924), issued while serving at Kingsdown CGS in 1845. On this he gives his date of birth as 5 April 1817, Valenciennes, Du Nord and has the following physical description: 5' 6 1/2'' tall, brown hair, pale complexion, grey eyes, tattoo of man, woman and child(?) on left arm, served 5 years in Royal Navy.

In 1817 Valenciennes was the HQ of the Army of Occupation at the end of the Napoleonic Wars, so if you can establish which Regiments were present then, this might provide a clue as to which regiment his father could have served in - assuming he was a soldier!

Hope the above is of interest and help.

Martin
Coastguards of Yesteryear

[JOOBLES]

In my very first post I said that Philip's widow married John Williams, I forgot to say he and Philip knew each other and actually served together in the same battles. They lived in the same village, Veryan, here in Cornwall and John was born there. After Philip died his widow, Julia, married John !

I have no record at the moment of Philip and Julia having a son called Thomas, it couldn't have been in 1819 because she was expecting their daughter. There were quite a few Clear / Clare families in Veryan at the time though.