Author Topic: Titles  (Read 1936 times)

Offline Mum2randa

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Titles
« on: Tuesday 21 January 14 12:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone,

I have a couple of queries and hope someone can help please.

1) On the Baptismal register an Ancestor is described as a " Gent" (London Baptism). Could a person who describes himself as such also be a Silversmith by trade?
I have some pieces on conflicting information and need to clarify which is correct - or even if they all are correct.

Are you always "born to the Gentry" or can you reach that status by climbing the social ladder after accumulating wealth?
The year I am looking at is a Baptism in 1829.

2) Two members of the same family (husband and wife), both in their mid 40`s, died in January and February 1832 in London. Not having any luck establishing what happened, but have found that there was a Cholera epidemic in the area of London they lived in. This is a possible cause. My question is, does anyone know of any lists that exist of victims of this epidemic?

Very grateful for any ideas anyone may have.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Titles
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 21 January 14 13:13 GMT (UK) »
A person could give any occupation they wished. The title of "Gent" does not necessarily mean that they were born into the "Gentry". (one of my research lines was an illiterate sailor when apprenticed but by the time of his son's marriage he was a "gentleman")
I don't think there would be a list of those who died in the cholera epidemic. Have you found their burial record to see if cause of death is named?

Offline stevew101

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Re: Titles
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 21 January 14 13:30 GMT (UK) »
In England, the term "Gentry" usually applied to the owner of a large landed estate, whereas the term "Gent" would refer to a gentleman.

Steve
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Offline jennifer c

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Re: Titles
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 21 January 14 13:46 GMT (UK) »
Do you want to give details so rootschat can't try to help?

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
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Offline Mum2randa

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Re: Titles
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 10:22 GMT (UK) »
any thanks for the responses so far everyone. I`ll try to explain the situation and see if anyone can help any further.
The family name I`m researching at the moment is "Wintle". I am trying to prove a link between Frederick Holmes Wintle born and Baptised in 1829, to James Wintle (his Father) born 1788 to George and Eden Wintle.

Frederick Holmes Wintle is shown as a Silversmith on his marriage record to Jane Eliza Turner.
His Father, James, is also shown as Silversmith on this record.
James`s father George, is also a Silversmith. I have various douments showing the apprenticeships.
However, on the Baptismal record I have for Frederick Holmes Wintle, his Father, James, is recorded as a "Gent".
Interestingly, on this Baptismal record, there are also two other children being baptised at the same time - both the children of James at the same address, but from a different mother, but that`s another story :-)).
I will try and attach the documents for you to see.  Just hoping  have found the correct James Wintle.

Offline Mum2randa

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Re: Titles
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 10:28 GMT (UK) »
Trying to reduce the files enough to post....try again..

Hooray - done!

Offline jennifer c

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Re: Titles
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 12:10 GMT (UK) »
Holdens Directory 1811

George Wintle working silversmith & spoon maker 3 Bell Savage Yard Lugate Hill

- Wintle Pewterer 284 Kent Street Borough

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
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Offline Mum2randa

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Re: Titles
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 13:37 GMT (UK) »
In October 1812 George at the address you have given Jennifer was indicted as follows:
275.  GEORGE WINTLE was indicted, for that he, on the 6th of October , feloniously did forge and counterfeit a certain impression used by the Company of Goldsmiths, in London, in pursuance of a certain Act of Parliment, made and passed in the 4th year of our Lord the King, entitled an Act for granting to his Majesty certain duties on all silver plate, made and wrought in Great Britain, and for the making and stamping of silver plate, to wit, the mark of the King's head, upon divers silver plate, to wit, one silver table-spoon and one silver fork .


The evidence goes on and George is acquitted. Part of his defence was that he now lived in the country and had passed the business to his son James.

I also have George and James listed in various directories.

My dilemma is that do I have the correct James Wintle to connect with both his son Frederick Holmes Wintle and the Father George Wintle - Gent or Silversmith? Or, can they be one and the same?

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Titles
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 13:48 GMT (UK) »
I assume you have tried a process of elimination?

Wintle appears to be an unusual name - are there other Wintles in a similar area around the same time, particularly with the same first names as yours? Can you put them into family groups?

It can get confusing as you often find cousins with the same occupations marrying women with the same names and living the same areas. Sometimes 'abode' can help differentiate the families if this is included on the Parish Record.