South African census?

[markheal]

In SA, when were formal census undertaken?

Will I find the father for Joan Selina MORTIMER born 1914?

Her 1935 marriage is witnessed by a John MORTIMER [possible father? died in 1955]

ALSO
Marriage August 1897 of John MORTIMER age 22 to Mabel JACKSON in Pietermaratsburg
witnessed by a John MORTIMER

Any help with these MORTIMERS will be appreciated.

[Nookie]

Unfortunately census records are not kept, but destroyed after the data has been extracted.

Joan married a Clement Hobbs on 2 April 1935.  A scan of this can be found on familysearch, Africa, Natal Civil marriages, as well as a scan of the marriage of John and Mabel.

I also found the estate files for both John and Mabel.  The death notice in one of these should give the names of the children born from the marriage.  I suggest that, should you wish to order these, you do it through eggsa.org

The only other way I can suggest to find out who Joan's parent were is to search through the scans of baptisms in the Pietermaritzburg area on the familysearch site.  Very tedious without an actual date of birth unfortunately.


DEPOT     NAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MSCE                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 1822/1950                                                             
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MORTIMER, MABEL. (BORN JACKSON) BORN IN PIETERMARITZBURG SOUTH       
           AFRICA. S/SP MORTIMER, JOHN. DECEASED ESTATE.                       
STARTING  19500000                                                             
ENDING    19570000 

DEPOT     NAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MSCE                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 851/1955                                                             
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          MORTIMER, JOHN. BORN IN ENGLAND. PRSP MORTIMER, MABEL. EST. NO.       
           1822/1955. DECEASED ESTATE.                                         
STARTING  19550000                                                             
ENDING    19640000                                                             
REMARKS   BOUND IN SEPARATE VOLUME.

[Nookie]

I suggest that you google the name Joan Selina Mortimer/Hobbs as there are family trees on the internet which have information on her.

Hope this helps

[markheal]

Many thanks for these very helpful responses and links.
Mark

[DorianLove]

I'm afraid I can't shed much light on the matter, as I am struggling to uncover the same information. I am the grandson of Joan Selina Hobbs. Attached is the marriage certificate for John Mortimer and Mabel Jackson. 1897. Witnessed by a John Mortimer, presumably the father? John Mortimer and William Bale started a conveyancing firm in Pietermaritzburg in 1849 in Church Street.

[Nookie]

Looking at one of the family tree 'pay sites' it would appear that Joan was born on 20 March 1914 - possibly in Hilton Natal not Hilton Road.  I found a reference to John Mortimer of Bale & Mortimer, house and land agents, living in Hilton in 1899.

On the marriage certificate John signs himself John Mortimer Jr, so presumably his father was John as well.

Googling Bale and Mortimer I came across an article in Natalia.org.za referring to John Mortimer the lawyer, playwright and author (of Rumpole fame) whose grandfather John was the John Mortimer of Bale and Mortimer.  However he was born in England in 1923, and his parents were not John and Mabel.  The article I read was on page 104 of Notes & Queries - Natal Society Foundation published by Natalia.

I would suggest that you apply for an unabridged birth certificate for Joan at the Department of Home Affairs. This would give the full names of her parents.

[DorianLove]

John Mortimer jr sold a house in Hilton Road in 1927 to St Anne's College, and there is extensive reference to the Mortimer House on Hilton Road. I have not found any reference to the Mortimers in Hilton, but as a property agent he is likely to have had many properties at various times. He donated part of erf 13 Burger Street to the city to create Leighton Street, for example, so he had a town house as well as the property on Hilton Road.

As far as I can piece together John Mortimer snr was born in Bristol in 1850 (he is listed in the 1881 census). He was a wine & spirit merchant with the firm Mortimer & Clune. His line is listed back to a John Mortimer born in Credition, Devon in 1794. He converted to Methodism, signed the pledge and sailed off to South Africa in 1890, because he had been to the Transvaal in 1871 on doctor's recommendation to relieve his asthma. In 1893 John Mortimer snr started the conveyancing firm Bale and Mortimer with William Bale in Pietermaritzburg.

John Mortimer jnr would have been 15/16 when he arrived in South Africa, and I have no record of any schooling - he probably joined his father's firm. He is listed as a clerk by profession in his marriage certificate. The younger brother, Clifford was 5 when he arrived in South Africa and went to Merchiston Prep school, followed by Michaelhouse, Natal's version of an English public school, then Cambridge and a distinguished legal career. His son John Mortimer was the playwright and barrister born in 1923.

My grandmother often spoke about "uncle Cliff" who was clearly the shining light of the family. Sir John Mortimer, the playwright, met her when he visited South Africa in 1993 to reconcile with his South African family at the end of Apartheid. JM was a notable anti-Apartheid campaigner.

The Mortimer family is said to have disapproved of John jnr's marriage to Mabel Jackson. They were married in 1897. I have no idea why!

This is pieced together from passages in JM's biography, what records I have managed to find, and bits of family lore. It's a best guess at this stage!