(*On hold for now*)Can you help me decipher family relationship here?

[lorrainec]

This is from the 1871 Scotland census.
I see :
Siobonis (sp) Murphy as the head of the family, a widow.
Mary Connor, daughter, married
Hugh Murphy, son, married
Martin Wallace, son-in-law, widower
Mary Wallace, niece
Martin Wallace, nephew

I am trying to track down a Martin Wallace who married a Mary ... (last name is possibly Mulcarron)
I have him on the 1881 Scottish census - with children Mary, Margaret, Bridget and John (John is my gr grandfather) - but even then I'm not sure if this is the right family!!

My question is - were the census takers concise in their "family" vocablulary - the niece and nephew could actually be Siobonis' grandchildren .... right?

thoughts?
Lorraine
Canada

[GR2]

Niece and nephew come from words that originally meant granddaughter and grandson. They retained that meaning in parts of Scotland right into the 19th century.

[josey]

Have you tried looking on Scotland's People for the baptisms/births of the Mary aged 6 & Martin aged 1 [both born Govan] you found in 1871? These might give the mother's surname. Did 'your' Martin marry three times - as this census shows one one who is a widower in 1871 & you say 'yours' had a Margaret, Bridget & John [you don't give dates of birth for these children.

Family search shows a baptism for a Mary Wallace 7 Jul 1865 in Govan daughter of Martin Wallace & Mary Mulcannon:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ9Y-QZ9
& also baptism for Martin Wallace 13 Mar 1870 son of Martin Wallace & Mary Murphy:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQPG-WJ6
No proof it is the same Martin Wallace of course.

Could Martin Wallace have been married & widowed twice, once to Mary Mulcannon then Mary Murphy? Then married again to have Margaret, Bridget & John.

Josey

[MonicaL]

Odd with the surnames for wife 

Did Martin show as a widower in 1871 on the original image?

An online tree includes a marrige for a Martin Wallace to a Mary Mulcarron on 2 Oct 1864 in Inverin, Galway, Ireland - source details not included.
   
Some children's births showing all in Govan, with a father Martin Wallace, include:

Mary Wallace b. 7 July 1865    Govan - mother Mary Mulcarron
Patrick Wallace b.  4 September 1866 Govan - mother Mary Mulcarron
Henry Wallace b. 12 July 1868 Govan - mother Mary Cairns
Martin Wallace b. 13 March 1870 Govan - mother Mary Murphy   
Margaret Wallace b. 3 October 1871 Govan - mother Mary Cairns
William Wallace b. 3 January 1873 Govan - mother Mary Mulcarron
Bridget Wallace b. 20 August 1874 Govan - mother Mary Mulcarron
Margaret Wallace b. 6 October 1881 Govan - mother Mary Mulcarron Wallace

All birth indexed entries on https://familysearch.org/search

Lorraine, this must be your family with John, your g grandfather already born in Govan 1881 (sure you have this but just for background here):

Martin Wallace 35 Ship Yard Labourer b. Ireland
Mary Wallace 30 b. Ireland
Mary Wallace 16
Maggie Wallace 11
Bridget Wallace 7
John Wallace 3
Arthur Donnally 58 boarder Boat Yard Labourer b. Ireland

Would guess Maggie aged 11 must have died shortly after this census and Mary pregnant already to be able to call the October 1881 b. baby girl Margaret too....can't easily see the death though so far in 1881 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Just John showing at home for 1891...or is Mary Monaghan daughter Mary b. 1865 in Govan? http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MONAGHAN/2002-03/1015656811:

Martin Wallace 50 labourer b. Ireland
Mary Wallace 48 b. Ireland
John Wallace 13
John Monaghan 24 boarder, riverter b. Ireland
Mary Monaghan 22 b. Govan
Bridget Monaghan 4
Catherine Monaghan 4
Margaret Monaghan 1

Address: 24 Victoria St, Govan

Monica

[MonicaL]

We have I think 3 surnames don't we  Mulcarron, Cairns and Murphy.

There is a death in Govan in 1910   for a Mary Wallace/Murphy aged 62. Ref 646/02 0523

I haven't viewed it. There is no corresponding death for a Wallace with Mulcarron or Cairns.

Maybe looking at the birth certs above would help confirm details? Marriage date/place comparison for parents from the births certs and addresses at the time of births may help.

Who did your g grandfather John show as his parents on his marriage and death entries?

Have you searched for a death for Martin Wallace to see what it may say about his wife/ves etc.? Is this connected? http://genforum.genealogy.com/wallace/messages/10635.html and also http://genforum.genealogy.com/irelandsurname/messages/131.html

Monica

[josey]

All good finds Monica!

Hope I'm thinking straight here - Could Mulcarron be pronounced Cairns? If it was pronounced M'carn, say, & in an Irish accent in Govan? Or - could Mary Murphy's mother Siobhan have been married first to a Mulcarron & then to a Murphy?

Mary Mulcarron cannot have died by the 1871 as 3 children born subsequently, so if the 'possible' Martin is indeed marked as widower on the census sheet - don't have any spare SP credit to check - he can't have been married to her. 

Have you found any deaths for Patrick 1866, Henry 1868 as they are not with the 'possible' Martin in 1871?

Josey

[MonicaL]

Hi Josey 

The small online tree I mentioned has:

Patrick b. 4 Sept 1866 d. 15 March 1867 in Clyde cottage, Govan
William b. 3 Jane 1873 d. 20 Dec 1894 in Govan
Bridger b. 20 Aug 1874 in Govan d. 26 Dec 1884 in Govan
John b. 18 Feb 1878 in Glasgow d. 15 March 1942 in Glasgow

Monica

[josey]

Hi Monica 

Lorraine, this must be your family with John, your g grandfather already born in Govan 1881:
Martin Wallace 35 Ship Yard Labourer b. Ireland
Mary Wallace 30 b. Ireland
Mary Wallace 16
Maggie Wallace 11
Bridget Wallace 7
John Wallace 3
Arthur Donnally 58 boarder Boat Yard Labourer b. Ireland
Would guess Maggie aged 11 must have died shortly after this census and Mary pregnant already to be able to call the October 1881 b. baby girl Margaret too....can't easily see the death though so far in 1881 

But in this 1881 - there is no Martin aged 11 as per aged 1 in 1871 - could this Maggie be that Martin 

We could do with some original baptism/birth records to see occupations of fathers & addresses, also occupation of John Wallace's father Martin on marriage certificate....we need a bit more confirmed info here I think.