Pre registration records

[sandyjose]

Hi Jim,Thank you so much for all your work on my Gunnings. Yes I live in Glasgow and no I haven,t been to Ireland,I would very much like to visit,it depends on my health but if I can I'll try to get there this year I will.I love your story ,off to find treasure,and then finding it,just not in the way you expected.As for making a crystal radio set,I wouldn't know where to start,one of my cousins did geology at Glasgow uni,he then worked at Kelvingrove Museum and Art gallery until he retired.
 My Dad regularly went to Ards as he had aunts and uncles there also a pile of cousins.These were all from his mother's side.She was Janet McMillan,born 1878 in Ards,her father was James,he was a weaver and her mother was Jane Belshaw.My dad's mother died in 1928,but he went to see his relatives as Janet had 6 siblings.I think there would have been some Gunnings in Ards but he never mentioned them.David Gunning,my dad's great uncle,was a shoe maker in Ards till he died in 1921,he had a large family but I don't know what happened to them.I did come across a Frank Gunning who lives in Conlig,his wife is Helen,no idea if he's related.
 Up until Janet died she visited Ards and she took some of her offspring with her,I don't think she knew that her mother-in-law,Annie Gunning,nee McCafferty was still there.When her husband,William James died in 1920,she went to the parish for help as she had 6 kids and ,apart the eldest,James,who was 15,no-one was old enough to work.On the application she says that both her in-laws are in New Zealand!I found that Annie remarried in 1818 to John White in Ards,on the previous census she put that she was a widow!
 There is one mystery I would loved solved,Annie(a)had 3 children before she married Thomas in 1877 in the Presbyterian Church in Greenwell St.William James(my grandad)in 1873,Easter(Esther) 1874 and Mary 1876.My grandad was baptized at the Greenwell st church,the other 2 I don't know where,on the 1881 census for Glasgow Easter isn't there.I have looked and looked but I can find no trace of her!
 I'd like to know when Annie died but as it's after 1922 there don't seem to be any Ulster Records on line.
 Why William had an expensive house, I've no idea.where was it? how did you find it?
 I didn't know that Gracey,means a cobbler,I saw something in Ayrshire,where all cobblers had a face on the outside wall near the front door,there's still one house with this sign.
 Nearly 2 years ago I contacted 1st Presbyterian Church to ask if they have records of BMD and I gave them the names I was interested in.The minister,Gordon,got back to me and said no bother.It transpired that an elderly man,John,is in charge of the parish records,Well the PC broke down,John said he'd sent me the records,which he hadn't,and so it went on for a year.Eventually,Gorden sent me a print out of all the records for my kin for Baptisms and marriages,which he could have done at the beginning.I'm not complaining,I thought it was funny but I was disappointed at just a print out as when I requested a marriage  entry from another church I got a copy of the entry in the book.Gordon said that if I wanted the originals I would have to go in person having made an appointment first.
  I won't bore you any more! I'll investigate the sites you have given me and see what I can find.
      Thanks again Susan

[BallyaltikilliganG]

from Griffiths Valuation Record Information
Tenant
Family Name 1   GUNNING
Forename 1   WILLIAM
Landlord
Family Name 2   ADAIR
Forename 2   JAMES
Location
County   DOWN
Barony   ARDS, LOWER
Union   NEWTOWN ARDS
Parish   BANGOR
Townland   CONLIG
Place Name   CONLIG, VILLAGE OF
Place Type   OTHER
Publication Details
Position on Page   41
Printing Date   1863
Act   15&16
Sheet Number   2,6
Map Reference   30 43
Its this last line that’s all important Its in the plot area 30 within the townland of Conligwhich must have another map showing subdivision 43. I have gone on to Griffiths valuation website. I can find Conlig and see the rough shape of terraced houses etc at full magnification. So I think its only viewable on some other map which will show subdivision 43 . can any one help Susan please

[sandyjose]

Thanks for finding that info,I don't know where you can find a map of properties but there must be one somewhere.You probably know more about where to look than I do but I will see what I can do.

[sandyjose]

I must apologize for not getting back to anyone before now.I spent most of April in hospital,prior to that I didn't realize how ill I was but I wasn't taking things in.I have now made a note of all the sites that have been suggested and I will work through them to see what I can find.Hopefully I can fill in a few gaps.Will report back soon.

[sandyjose]

Hi Jim,Today I was looking at Genes Reunited and I saw both Helen and Graham have records that could be relevant to my family.However I can't send them messages without subscribing.I haven't got round to looking at other sites you suggested yet.I looked for other names in my family in Ards ie Belshaw,there were a few,McCafferty a couple,McRobert  one and McMillan two.
  I'll look at the other sites and see what I find.Susan

[BallyaltikilliganG]

hi Susan, Because you are or meant to be recuperating, I recap below your family tree. Is this correct enough. Any clues where the townland relatives lived should help. At the moment all I have is the Conlig link, and possibly Newtownards but no address as yet noted by you. Staying on Conlig and back to Griffiths valuation where a William Gunning is listed with a special house , the most highly valued inside Conlig village. The Griffiths map doesn’t have the scale to show the individual house within the compact village, one might guess that if was a a shoe or bootmaker his premise might include workshop areas.   Or if he is a descendant of a successful farmer it could be a farmhouse building on the outer edge of the village, the only possible connection here is about ½ a mile away is 2 acres of land owned by a William Gunnion with no buildings on it. I sense that Gunnion and Gunning are connected as they always crop up in the same area.  Its how you say it and hear it etc. so it could be the same person.  Other info about Griffiths valuation it has additions available at PRONI and you should be able to trace what happens to the house.
rechecking Wm G in Conlig ie bangor parish records in Griffiths the map reference 30 43 means within the village itself  Map ref 14 is William Gunnion leasing from Margaret Duff two acres in the townland Its position is on an easterly corner squeezed between Balloo townland in Bangor parish and Drumirk townland in Newtownards parish

You mention across a Frank Gunning who lives in Conlig ,his wife is Helen, no idea if he's related. get writing to them with your tree if you wish.  I couldn’t find any Gunning living in Conlig via the BT white pages for residents. Someone who has been on the net and remembers Conlig well is  Ron ballard see www.rootschat.com/forum/index. php?topic=481603.msg3403203#msg3403203    You could try a message on Rootschat under Conlig heading asking him to help or perhaps try a private message.

1.James Gunning x3 grandad,a farmer babt 1780s,m Jane Stewart approx 1807,
more info wanted?? How do know about James
children
1.2 Samuel was born 1808, went to Glasow more info wanted??
1.3 James no b date went to Glasgow and returned after his wife Agnes died
1.4 Andrew no b date a farmer location unknown
1.5 William x2 grandad,b 1823 shoemaker m Mary Snodden, or Snowden m 1848 or before suggest search for Snodden background ie location
William definitely of Conlig ie first location so far , but he stayed in Newtownards?? area? He also visited Glasgow remember Gunnion variant spelling and local parish is Bangor! His house is valued at £7
Children
1.5.1 Samuel born 1848. more info wanted?? Went to Scotland
1.5.2 James married in glasgow then NZ Must have influenced Thomas or viceversa re NZ
1.5.3 Sarah1853
1.5.4.Thomas was my great or x1 grandad, born in 1855,probably   in Newtownards,I have his marriage and his death. I contacted 1st Presbyterian Church  and they sent me a list of all the baptisms and marriages for members of my family, but nothing for either William or James Are there townlands or addresses mentioned Thomas went to NZ leaving Janet and family behind
children
1.5.4.1  William James Your granddad m Janet McMillan
1.5.4.1.1  William McMillan Gunning your father
1.5.5 David 1858 stayed
1.5.6 Henry 1860 no info at all

Other things found on the map includes there is Presbyterian meeting house in Conlig and Baptists and a national school back to ros davies.
Conlig Presbyterian Church
2km S of Bangor ,in the village
This congregation was an offshoot of 1st Bangor as the population was expanding. The first minister 24 Feb 1846. , built 1848 and serviced the lead miners in the area.
Records from 1845; PRONI MIC1P/94- Baptisms, 1845-1919; marriages, 1850-1935; committee minutes, 1848-1937; session and committee minutes, with lists of communicants, 1848- 1956; on MIC1P/230/6- Marriage notices, 1845-1941.

graveyard attached, only one pre- 1900 gravestone for John Sinclair in UHF Vol 17; email me for a gravestone look-up

For images of conlig try http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=conlig&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=777&bih=525

Must stop now JimG

[sandyjose]

Hi Jim,Many thanks for your interest and giving me further places to research.I found out about James Gunning though a distant cousin who now lives in Tasmania.Her great x2 grandad was Samuel Gunning brother of William my great x2 grandad.Another lady who contacted me is Great granddaughter of James Gunning,brother of Thomas,who went to NZ after marrying Jessie Hill in Glasgow.
  James and Jane's children
  Samuel b 1808,he went to Glasgow to start a cab co which was carried on by his son.His 1st wife was Mary McCulloch,when she died he married Harriet Dobbin
  Eliza 1810 she married Robert McGimpsey in 1848  and died in 1904
  James 1814,he married Agnes McClutcheon1845,they went to Glasgow where he was a labourer. Agnes died in Glasgow and is buried with a daughter Elizabeth,in the Glasgow Necropolis.James went back to Ards,he died in 1896 and he's buried in Movilla.
  Andrew 1820 he married Jane Mcwhirk 1849,he was a farmer,they had 10 children,not sure when Jane died,Andrew died 1902,I think he's buried in Ards in Movilla.
  Agnes 1825,she married John Downey 1851,she died the same year,childbirth?
  Sarah 1827,she married John McIllian 1847 no more info
   William 1823,married Mary Snodden ? died ?Their children.
  Samuel 1848 married Catherine McKenna1868 they went to Glasgow,no more info.
  Sarah 1853 married James Gregory 1872,died 1873 childbirth.
  James 1854 married Jessie Hill in Glasgow 172 left for NZ James died 1911
  Thomas 1856,married Anna McCafferty 1877 went to NZ,married Mary Brown 1902,died 1925 Dunedin.
  David 1858 married Marta Grey 1877,worked as a shoemaker till his death 1921
 Henry 1860 married a Lizzie? no more info
 That is all the info I have on the Gunning Family except for my grandad and his sister.
 Does that answer any of your questions?
 I looked on the Griffith Valuations and saw that William's house is bigger than the others,how can I find out what happened to it? I can't work out what the address would have been.
 I will look at Gunnion,I have come across other family members whose names were mis spelt.
  Will get back to you soon Susan

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Susan, I haven’t searched these revision notes for Griffiths before, but the {Map}references  as listed for Wm Gunning was 30:43 ie 30 for the village followed by property ref 43 so I get started
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm
then I chose the first conlig village revision which was 1883 to 1893, this opened a window with a contents page which showed Conlig village was p126 to p136
Current PRONI Reference: VAL/12/B/23/7G (1883 - 1893)
Conlig starts on p126 and I am looking for ref 30;43 I find 43 and 44 are now combined Landlord is still James Adair, the previous tenant is not Gunning but Samuel Gill and he has been crossed out and replaced with John Nicholl the description says Public added in red, then then  House shop office and small garden, I think the word SHOP is the past connection to WmGunning business, so that avenue is  closed off ie Wm Gunning must have died , moved etc between 1863 and 1883. I am inclined to think his house must have been on the east side of the village on the main road.

I looked for Gunnion outside the village at No 14 its first revision was in 1871 and found the first additional note had that name crossed out and someone called “Jane Cass? Takes over and the land lord changes to Lowry who owns a lot so that’s that closed off.

Summing up: I feel disappointed at these revision books, and am having one last look at Griffiths original no no more clues

Overall conclusions If William and Mary died in Conlig, they may have been buried there in the presbyterian church but no mention found by me of a graveyard, and often Presbyterians were buried in the nearest Cof I that might be Newtownards but strictly should be Bangor. Ros Davies says there is a graveyard at Conlig PC but only one pre 1900 tombstone recorded, The church needs to be asked if there is a burial book, nearby is the Conlig Baptist church but without graveyard.  Its Wm Gunning birthplace and ancestors that seem to be illusive. Other than perhaps a mention in some landlords estate papers I don’t where else to look.
I think that is me exhausted! I must hope others will join in to help you onwards,
so its goodbye JimG

[sandyjose]

Many thanks for all your  help,I know William was dead by 1877 as it says deceased on Thomas' marriage entry. You have done so much in tracing my family,it gives me an idea of their lives.If you come across anything in the future,let me know.Take care Susan