Help....can't find James Currie's mother!

[kshaw]

Forfar.... I have personally found a lot illegitimate children during my family research. I had two in the 1880's that where marked as illegitimate on there birth records, but where not really. It was just a case of the parents not being married at the time and the father not being 'present' at the time of birth. In the one case the father's name was given as a middle name and the mother's last name than the parents married 4 months later. Sadly he grow up with a different last name to the rest of his siblings and parents, since it was never changed or switched as thie Currie/Marr case. The other one I found, showed that the father had died before they could marry but they had done a hand-fasting.... but that was not accepted I guess as her last name was never changed and there was no mention of him on the BC. I only found out about this because of a family bible which also had the baby christened with the father's last name.

I've also seen a lot of Irish girls that came over to 'in the family way'.....which would have put the numbers up.

[MonicaL]

Wow, not looked in for a few days and what a lot of info. Well done everyone!

Next stage to try and find more about mother Margaret Currie may be to view the marriage cert for Margaret Currie to John Marr. I can only see one possible child for them so far:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQNR-ZHQ

...Margaret has her age listed in 1881 as 35 which means that she was just 14 when she had James

Can't see this entry. Can you post some more details for that year? Can't easily see a death for a Margaret Curr*/Marr either on SP. Marriage cert is probably the first thing to check for further details such as age/parents etc.

Monica

[MonicaL]

....Neil Currie b. 1885 Glasgow son of James Currie abt. 1860 Glasgow (unknown if in or just in near area) & Margaret Sharkey abt. 1860 Glasgow (again area)....

This looks like Margaret's birth https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQWH-8RG not long before the family showed in Liverpool for 1861:

John Sharkie 37 fruit dealer
Margaret Sharkie 32
William Sharkie 9
Margaret Sharkie 3
James Sharkie 1 b. Birkenhead
Sarah Martin 32 house servant

RG 9/2671/16/25

Monica

[Forfarian]

I have personally found a lot illegitimate children during my family research. I had two in the 1880's that where marked as illegitimate on there birth records, but where not really. It was just a case of the parents not being married at the time and the father not being 'present' at the time of birth.

From 1855, the rule was that the father's name could only be included on the birth certificate of an illegitimate child if the father accompanied the mother to the registrar's office when she went to register the birth and signed the certificate along with her. So it could happen that the entire parish knew who the father was, but because he did not accompany her, the child was registered in its mother's name.

If the parents married later, the child became legitimate, provided that the parents would have been free to marry at the time of the child's conception.

The idea that a surname was fixed at registration and had to be formally changed isn't right. There are dozens of illegitimate children in the censuses, living with their grandparents, registered in their mothers' names and known by their fathers' names. There was no need for any formal process of change; you can change your name to anything you like provided the change is not made in order to commit fraud.

As for the handfasting, a promise of marriage followed by sexual relations was one of the ways of contacting a legal marriage. See http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/ So in legal terms, if there were witnesses to the handfasting, and a child was subsequently born, the marriage was just as valid as it would have been if there had been a ceremony performed by a minister.

[MonicaL]

....daughter of John Sharkey 1824 Scotland - 19 Jan 1901 Glasgow & Margaret Taylor 14 Jun 1830 Glasgow - 20 Jan 1881...

Potentially John Sharkey was born in Ireland? http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9445&p=localities.britisles.ireland.don.general

I would imagine this information has come from his 1855 Marriage Cert to Margaret Taylor https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTY4-P98  If you haven't see this already, the first year of official registration in Scotlland and for one year only, registrations ran over two pages of the registers. For marriages, it should include date and place of bride and groom's births too.

I am sure, from what you say, that you also have details of John's parents - Michael and Margaret (Hume)and their deaths in Scotland which has let you work further back.

Monica

[ecksdochter]

Hello again kshaw,
     The 1901 Census I posted for Margaret Cunie (might be Currie) gives Margaret's occupation as Fruit Dealer. Son Neil is a Coal Dealer. (Noticed Monica's post about Margaret Sharkie's father being a fruit dealer)
     Regards,     Dod.

[MonicaL]

Well done Dod on that 1901 entry. Certainly looks like you found them in 1901. From what I have seen, Margaret Sharkey Currie's brother James b. 1860 went off to Ontario Canada around those years. May have helped when some Currie children went there in the early 1900s.

I think the fruit dealing went up the generations. John Sharkey's father, Michael, also showed as a fruit merchant I think in 1861.

Monica

[jennywren001]

Hi Everyone,
Should have posted this in full a few posts back...'A' Margaret Marr in 1881 in Govan - note birth place of first three...wonder if this can still be tied in with the 1864 marriage...means Margaret moved through to Edinbugh then back to Glasgow...or was she John's  second wife and that 1864 marriage is not them....too bad that wee boy Matthew is not a bit older then at least she could be married by James' wedding date! I don't like the 10 year gap between Sarah and Matthew if you know what I mean....
Dwelling: 46 Calder St         
John      MARR Head Married     38      M    Mason            Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
John      MARR Son N/A         14      M    Message Boy Bakers    Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Sarah MARR Daughter N/A     11       F    Scholar                 Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Margaret    MARR Wife Married 35         F    Masons Wife          Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Matthew    MARR Son N/A          1           M                                    Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Jen

[MonicaL]

Hi Jen 

Did see this one earlier. Think the Margaret, wife of a John Marr you showed there, was this John Marr's second wife. The daughter Sarah born in Edinburgh, I think this might be her birth there https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ8J-838  The son John likely here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQF2-SF4

I think now to get any further back we need the info from that 1864 marriage. Something likely happened (?) given only one child showing from this marriage.

Monica