Author Topic: Emily Harriet Norman  (Read 13099 times)

Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #54 on: Wednesday 26 February 14 09:48 GMT (UK) »
I don't have Emily Harriett Norman's birth certificate but the people who compiled the lists on the http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/other%20sites.htm web site have obtained this information from somewhere.

I have sent two Emails to that site over the past 12 months and they went unanswered so I'm not sure if this site is being maintained.

I have tried the London Metropolitan Archives without success and the BMD Registers Non Conformist Non Parochial site that supposedly has overseas registrations without success.

There is a note about Malta in the LDS FamilySearch site https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/British_Births,_Marriages_and_Deaths_Overseas#Foreign_Registers_and_Returns_1627-1958_.28RG33.2F1-162.29 that details what happened to some records from Malta.

William Norman was described as being a "Steward to Admiral William Parker" at Malta but simply as a Pensioner on his death certificate. Perhaps the Haynes, Wise and Norman families were all bakers?

Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #55 on: Tuesday 04 March 14 01:22 GMT (UK) »
For completeness I have updated some details of the Norman's

1. I have sent another Email to the http://website.lineone.net/ site seeking the source of their BDM data on Malta information but as yet I have not received a reply.

2. I have revisited the Public Records Office and re-examined the available Male & Female patients case books for the Ballarat - Sunbury asylums for the period that Emily Norman was there (1906 - 1907) but again no success, the record books are incomplete and overlap to some extent. Her name appears on the Male index but the Male case books are incomplete with at least one missing volume for that period where I presume her details would be if the index is accurate.

3. Looked up William Norman's Jnr's railway station master postings in "Rigg of The Railways" ISBN 0646415395 which is the most complete and readily available listing and it only lists his posting to Brunswick station on the 28/7/1902, it lists his DOB as 30/10/1847 compared to the site on Malta that lists his birth as the 30/10/1845? The Rigg book is not complete so William may well have been the station master at Cheltenham at some stage. I'm quite sure though that the William Norman listed as executor to Stephen Wise's Will is the same person.

4. I note from LDS " FamilySearch" that William Norman had two other brothers also born in Deptford, John in 1804 and James in 1806. Only the 1851 census lists any of the Normans and that is James who is living at Chatham, is a Widower and works as a "Baker Journeyman", so the baker occupation seems a strong link. William Norman's parents being John Norman and Sarah Wilson as stated on his death certificate.

5. There is a John Norman who dies at Inglewood in North West Victoria in 1890 whose DOB is 1804-1805 born London that is a good candidate to be William Norman's brother.  John Norman died a bachelor with no known details other than he was born in London.

I think that the absence of any other DBM information for Emily Harriett Norman makes the Emily Norman who died at Ballarat a good candidate to be the family member but I don't think that I will be able to obtain any further conclusive evidence unless someone else at some future time claims to be a descendant.

Once again many thanks to all for the excellent work over the past two weeks in tracking down the Wise family connections and the fact that Eliza Haynes sister  Harriett also emigrated to Australia.

best regards  ....... Frank

Offline judb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #56 on: Tuesday 04 March 14 06:36 GMT (UK) »
You probably have this:

Parents of John NORMAN, baptised 24 November, 1804 at St Paul's Deptford are listed as John and Sarah NORMAN of Butt Lane; father's occupation: mariner.  Same parent address and occupation for the brothers James and William (born April 2, 1808). 

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline shollingworth101

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #57 on: Monday 09 October 17 06:22 BST (UK) »
Check out 1841 census for John Haynes and Catherine (nee Rook) with daughters Eliza & Harriett at St George Hanover Square. 1851 census John is now a pensioner from the admiralty, he & Catherine are now living with married daughter Harriet Wise at St Mary Woolwich. Eliza has married William Norman and is now in Victoria. Daughter Emily Wise aged 1 is there (same who witnessed the Beechworth wedding in 1871). John Haynes died 1853, Catherine died at Brighton in 1862.

Death notices in Trove: Ovens & Murray Advertiser 1/8/1878 gives death notice for Eliza Norman of Loch St Beechworth (same address as the bellman & billposter probably the son). The Age 6/12/1881 gives death notice for William Norman aged 74 died 22/11/1881 at Emerald Hill (no street).


Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #58 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 06:20 BST (UK) »
Thanks  shollingworth101 for passing on this information, I had not come across the  notice in the Ovens & Murray Advertiser but Trove are busily digitising new material all the time. Following on from my last messages on this subject Trove had subsequently added the "The Record", a local newspaper covering South Melbourne (Emerald Hill) as well as limited editions of "The Age", an article appeared in both of February 1901 detailing the magistrates court hearing concerning Emily Norman of Emerald Hill on vagrancy charges (no visible means of support). This would be the same Emily Norman admitted to the Elizabeth Fry Retreat at this time and thence to the psychiatric hospital system ending in Ballarat.

At no stage did it seem that anyone knew about her brother William and sister  Jessie and by 1901 her sister Jessie (one of my G Grandmothers) was living at Mordialloc which was farmland on the outskirts of Melbourne in those days although the Woods retained a house in South Melbourne.

I can't help but think that the Woods may have retreated to Mordialloc in the 1890's post William Norman Snr's death to escape the wayward Emily.

Offline shollingworth101

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #59 on: Saturday 14 October 17 01:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the extra info on Emily. After really following Trove I've come to the conclusion that the bellman and billposter in Loch St Beechworth was William Norman Senior. The best fit for his arrival is in 1865 on 'Norfolk' and he was living in Beechworth in 1869 when he bought shares in a mining company operating at Clear Creek. There is too much overlap with his son in El Dorado to make it possible that William junior ran the business in Beechworth. He was too busy managing the affairs of the New Wellington company to make that possible. William Junior seems to have hung around the area for a while, seems to have been on the committee for the Ovens Hospital in 1883. Was obviously at Cheltenham Station by March 1884.