Author Topic: Emily Harriet Norman  (Read 13128 times)

Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #9 on: Friday 21 February 14 08:15 GMT (UK) »
Just a further thought I should have mentioned the Weir connection

Jessie Norman & David Wood had 13 children of which 12 survived into adulthood, Daisy Jessie Wood was one of my paternal grandmothers and one of her brothers, Hugh Alexander Wood married Elizabeth Jamieson Weir in 1916 and present as a witness to the marriage in Perth of Daisy Jessie Wood to my Grandfather James Cooper Webb in 1904 was a Mr William Hunter Weir who was also related to Elizabeth Jamieson Weir. Elizabeth Jamieson Weir was born near Bendigo to John Weir and Janet Hunter in 1884.

I have been extensively researching the Weirs in Australia and Scotland and I am receiving help from someone in the UK in the hope that this will lead to identifying a possible Weir who may have married Emily Norman, so far no one has emerged, everyone from the Weirs in Cumnock and Sorn in Ayrshire that came to Australia have been accounted for.

In the case of Emily Weirs, there are only two possibilites that I have not sought the certifctaes for as yet that may match and one died at Woonona in NSW in 1898 and the other at Northampton WA in 1946. All the other Emily or Emma Weirs in the Vic, QLD, SA BDM records do not match.

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #10 on: Friday 21 February 14 08:40 GMT (UK) »
Do you know the whereabouts of all the Normans in between 1857 and 1871?

Neil
Grewl,Nickerseens,flombastion,Everheads

Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #11 on: Friday 21 February 14 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Hello Neil; I know about the lives of Jessie and her brother William, they seem to be well documented but I found absolutely nothing about Emily. When Jessie Norman married David Elder Wood in 1868 her address was listed as Clarendon Street Emerald Hill (South Melb).

This is the families arrival in Melbourne in 1857

NORMAN ELIZA   A  NOV 1857 COLEROON B 136 001 N
NORMAN EMILY HARRIETT  8   NOV 1857 COLEROON B 136 001
NORMAN JESSIE   4   NOV 1857 COLEROON B 136 001
NORMAN WILLIAM   9   NOV 1857 COLEROON B 136 001    

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #12 on: Friday 21 February 14 09:36 GMT (UK) »
So that is a no on the whereabouts? Have a look at this.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y45/

Could William have been posted to Newcastle then Sydney possibly. ???

Neil
Grewl,Nickerseens,flombastion,Everheads


Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 22 February 14 23:52 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the reference Neil but I have the record of the family Emily Harriett Norman being born on Malta in 1848 and the record of her arrival in Melbourne from London in 1857 so the Emily H Norman born in Sydney cannot be the same person, also Eliza was the mother's name not Elizabeth,  she was baptised Eliza and in the documents that I have has always referred to herself as such.

I've really have no idea what William and Eliza where doing in Australia between arriving and dying, I hope next week to be able to look at the rent books at the Port Philip Library to see who was living where in Emerald Hill in the 1860's to 1870's as the Normans in question do not appear in the Electoral Rolls for Port Philip, the other possible source are school class records for the period but I don't hold much hope there as they are patchy and incomplete due to some being from religious based schools and others state based.

David Wood was living at the same address as his older brother John in Emerald Hill for some years so only shows up in the Port Philip Electoral Rolls in about 1873.

Emily Norman's brother William went to work on the Ovens Valley goldfields (Eldorado & Beechworth) at some stage and is married at Beechworth in 1871, the mother Eliza was committed to the May Day Hills asylum Beechworth in 1877 and dies there in 1878 so I presume she may have been there since 1871. William the brother later became a station master for the Victorian railways and lived in North Brunswick.

There is the marriage of an Emily H Norman to a William J Harding in NSW in 1900 and later her name is spelt EMILIE, I have looked at this entry some time ago and her full name was Emily (Emilie) Hester Norman and she died in 1954, her parents being William Joseph and Sarah Alice so not the one I'm looking for.

Offline sparrett

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 23 February 14 03:14 GMT (UK) »
I've really have no idea what William and Eliza where doing in Australia between arriving and dying, F C webb

Was William Snr the plumber in Emerald Hill ?

There are advertisements for his services in the 1870's as well as an insolvency in 1873.

I note his business was in Clarendon Street which you do give as the "home address" of Jessie NORMAN at her marriage to David WOOD in 1868.

Sue
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Offline Jennaya

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 23 February 14 03:54 GMT (UK) »
So that is a no on the whereabouts? Have a look at this.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y45/

Could William have been posted to Newcastle then Sydney possibly. ???

Neil

Could the original Emily have died and then a subsequent daughter given the same name? Do you have records of any more children being born to this family in Australia? I think it would be strange if no further children were born in Australia if the parents were still living together.

Offline cando

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 23 February 14 04:51 GMT (UK) »
Could the original Emily have died and then a subsequent daughter given the same name? Do you have records of any more children being born to this family in Australia? I think it would be strange if no further children were born in Australia if the parents were still living together.

Jennaya there are no death registrations in Victoria for dau Emily H and no further births to this couple either.  Victorian indexes both online and CD's detail the mother's maiden name on the birth indexes and on the death indexes where known to the informant.

The OP has both the parents' death certificates which should detail all the issue of the marriage both living and deceased at the times of the parents' deaths.

F C Webb....All very speculative but may be worth following up on the following.  Ages of those admitted to public institutions were often inaccurate. Information on death certificates is often scant for those who died in public institutions even if known to the staff.  Informants were often hospital messengers or porters.

NORMAN Emily
Hospital record  19 Jun 1905
Birth place unknown  Age 50  Occupation Unknown
Kew Asylum case books 1871-1912.   
VPRS 7397/P1 15.
Compiler Marion Button  Page#85

Death
NORMAN Emily
Parents unknown
At Ballarat  1907 52 years  Reg#3461

Buried on 12 Jun 1907 at Ballarat Cemetery in open ground, location not known.
NORMAN Emily    52 years
   
Inquest Index
NORMAN Emily
1907  Ref#451
Cause Pleurisy

Cheers
Cando

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Offline F C Webb

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Re: Emily Harriet Norman
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 23 February 14 20:15 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Cando, Sparrett & Jennaya;

1. The Plumber William Norman who lived in Clarendon St South Melb was not the family William although it's uncanny that he was living in Clarendon St which is the address that Jessie Norman gave on the ledger entry for her marriage.  This William Norman died in 1890 some nine years after the family William Norman and unlike my Normans there are numerous other records of his life (Port Philip Electoral Roll and Argus Newspaper entries).

(The link to William Norman Plumber death 1890   

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y5i/  )


2. I get the impression that William Norman spent most of his life away from Australia serving with the RN and only returned in the late 1870's. There are certainly no records of William & Eliza having any further children and their death certificates list only the same children that came to Australia and the death of Fanny in Malta. The informant for the death of William and Eliza was in both cases their son William.

3. I have spent much time at the North Melbourne records office examining the large original ledger books form the Ballarat & Sunbury asylums trying to find the record for the Emily Norman who died at Ballarat in 1907 but to no avail. The problem I found was that this Emily Norman's name was included on the Male index not the Female but I could not find the actual entry in either case books (there are actually about 7 case books).  Her age given as 52 would place the DOB at 1855 which is a bit later but then again her true age may not have been known,  I have the  ledger entry for this death in 1907 and it sheds no light at all as all her details are unknown. Her brother William and sister Jessie were both still alive in 1907 and I thought that they would have known or been contacts. By the way these old asylum case books are not light reading and come complete with before and after photos of those that made it through!


4. I did not know about the Kew entry so I will follow this one up

5. I'm not confident that the Emerald Hill rate books will reveal anything as the family may have been living with someone else who is listed as the rate payer.

6. I should point out that I have also gone through the census records in the UK looking for Emily XXX born Malta without any success, there is an Emily Weir of exactly the right age whose death is registered at Medway which includes Chatham where William Norman's father John came from (the Normans were mariners).  The parents of William Norman Snr were John Norman and Sarah Wilson.

Thanks for all your efforts but this is a really hard one.

The records in Australia especially Victoria & NSW are very good but not perfect, I've already traced three family members one of whom is buried in the MGC that do not show up in the Vic BDM index, not to say they are not in the original ledgers though.