Author Topic: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881  (Read 10810 times)

Offline crimea1854

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 25 February 14 08:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi David

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think your conclusions about William's navy service need to be more rigorously tested. I say this because on the NGS medal roll the William on HMS Vanguard is a ships cook, but later on in HMS Albion is a Leading Seaman, which would be an unusual career path in the Royal Navy. If you were able to visit the National Archives at Kew I would consult Albion's Ships Description Book (ADM 38/7489), this would confirm this William's age and place of birth, plus listing all his previous ships and dates of service.

There is another path you could take, and that is to order on-line from the National Archives, the Greenwich Hospital School admissions application for John Charles Blackmore, born 5th March 1841 (ADM 73/172/87). While this does not provide a place of birth it does give his parents as William and Sarah. A subsequent check on Familysearch.org returned exactly the same birth date for a John Charles Blackmore born to a William and Sarah in Wiltshire.

Admission to the GHS was only available to children of long serving seamen, and applications were generally accompanied by a statement of the man's service. Of course this still might not be your man, but my hunch is that it could well be.

Martin

Offline mayne knott

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 25 February 14 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Hello Martin,  thanks for your reply and suggestions - no I wont take it the wrong way!  I'm only to glad of any help on this.  Tracing this family's history has been problematic to say the least and the addition of military history has just added to it.  I have managed to download some details which I think refer to his naval service - I think that the declaration that he was serving in the navy on the 1851 census is correct.  His military service prior to and after this date requires more checks.  I'll try your suggestion about the GHS school as a starter.  If you can offer any more suggestions on research into military history around this time period please let me know.

Regards and many thanks,  David
UK: Mayne Knott, Knott, Freeman, Caisley, Uncles, Harvey, Palmer, Guest, Sheffield, Blackmore, Nicholls, Purves
US: Uncles, Breadney.

Offline crimea1854

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 26 February 14 06:58 GMT (UK) »
David

I find this man a little bit of a conundrum. If it were not for his wife’s statement that he was a seaman I would have thought there was a good chance he was a Royal Marine. I say this because I researched a RM Sgt. who had served in the Crimea, who after leaving the service became a Musketry Instructor with the Cornish Militia, a not dissimilar route to your man.

If you do order the Greenwich Hospital School admission papers, do come back a let us know what you find.

Martin

Offline mayne knott

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 26 February 14 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Hello Martin, 

yes conundrum is just the right word!  I've had another look at my records and note that on ADM 171 /28 for HMS Sans Pariel he appears as listed in the Sea Marine Brigade.  I checked the Royal Naval Museum web site and found on their data sheets a write up covering Naval Brigades.

On  census returns for 1861 (RG9/4232) and 1871 (RG10/5594) he is now listed as a "Bugle Major" in the Radnorshire Militia / Rifles.  His eldest son, Thomas Blackmore (my Gtgrandfather) is also in the Radnorshire  Militia / Rifles for the 1861 census.  Interestingly, his son John C Blackmore is also listed on the 1871 census as being in the Radnorshire  Militia / Rifles.  Stranger than this is the 1861 census lists Charles Blackmore as (presumably this is John C Blackmore - age works out  and birthplace seem to match) as Confectioner.  Thomas Blackmore is later listed on the 1871 census (RG10/5594) as a Militia Hospital Sergeant - he's now married to Ellen Nicholls.

Your comments about your ex RM joining the Cornish Militia do seem to have strong similarities to my man don't they.

David







UK: Mayne Knott, Knott, Freeman, Caisley, Uncles, Harvey, Palmer, Guest, Sheffield, Blackmore, Nicholls, Purves
US: Uncles, Breadney.


Offline mayne knott

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 27 February 14 07:34 GMT (UK) »
Hello Martin,

Just to keep you up to date, I've requested an estimate of ADM 73/172/87 from the National Archives at Kew.  When this part of the process is complete I'll order it and see what information it reveals.  My understanding is that admission to the GHS was from aged 10 yrs.  Boys remained there until 14 yrs.  If they didn't make the grade they were discharged. 

The 1851 census shows John C Blackmore aged 10 yrs and at home in Minster, Sheppy with his mother Sarah and his brothers Thomas and John R. The 1861 census shows he's aged 20 yrs and at home (now listed as Charles working as a confectioner) in Presteigne with his parents  This seems to suggest that he didn't make the grade at the GHS or he never went there at all even though an application was made.  I'll let you know how I get on.

David
UK: Mayne Knott, Knott, Freeman, Caisley, Uncles, Harvey, Palmer, Guest, Sheffield, Blackmore, Nicholls, Purves
US: Uncles, Breadney.

Offline mayne knott

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 27 February 14 17:55 GMT (UK) »
Hello Martin,

I've may have found my man.  I've been searching the National Archives and found the following record details reference ADM 29/43/314; Original page number: 314 - William BLACKMORE; Rating; Born: [Not Given]; Age on entry: 29; Dates served: 27 April 1842-7 December 1853; Date and Type of Application: Greenwich 10 June 1851

I've calculated his date of birth from the age given on entry and this matches his birth date of 1813.

I'll see what other document for the GHS shows before I order the above.  I'll let you know how I get on.

David
UK: Mayne Knott, Knott, Freeman, Caisley, Uncles, Harvey, Palmer, Guest, Sheffield, Blackmore, Nicholls, Purves
US: Uncles, Breadney.

Offline mayne knott

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Re: Blackmore Family in Presteigne, Radnorshire 1881
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 12 April 14 17:03 BST (UK) »
Hello Martin,

I have at long last got my hands on the document ADM 73/172/87 from TNA. 

Details of Naval Service are as follows dated as 12 June 1851:-

HMS Camperdown - 27th April 1842 to 18th July 1844; HMS Queen - 19th July to 31st Jan 1845; Quality - AB
HMS Trafalgar - 1st Feb 1845 to 30th Jun 1847; HMS Ocean - 1st July 1847 to 12th Oct 1847; Quality - AB
HMS Ocean - 13th Oct to 10th Jan 1848; HMS Ocean - 11th Jan 1848 to 22nd Dec 1850;      Quality - Banks Man
HMS Monarch - 27th Jan 1851 to 31st Mar 1851; Quality - AB

Looks like he finally left the service in 1851.  The file also shows that his son wasn't accepted into the hospital school - he had passed the maximum entry age for acceptance and his father hadn't enough service years.  There are other useful details on this document which have shed some light on other issues.
 
 Many thanks for your help, David
UK: Mayne Knott, Knott, Freeman, Caisley, Uncles, Harvey, Palmer, Guest, Sheffield, Blackmore, Nicholls, Purves
US: Uncles, Breadney.