Author Topic: Hawthornden  (Read 7448 times)

Offline wini

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Hawthornden
« on: Friday 28 February 14 10:43 GMT (UK) »
I am reading a book called "The Drummonds of Hawthornden" it is about the Hawthornden in the Toodyay Valley in west Australia.
James Drummond was born in Hawthornden in Scotland in 1784.
I have googled this and can only find a Hawthornden Castle in   Midlothian.
Is  there a village by that name ?
That is the only mention until he moves at 22 to be  curator of the Botanical Gardens in Cork

wini
Gunn, Cree, Reid,McNeice, Munro, McPhee
Jackson, Gillies,Gebbie. McCredie, nicolson, McAskill,
MacKinnon,Morrison,Campbell,

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 February 14 15:11 GMT (UK) »
wini, not answering your question, but futher notes on James Drummond such as here www.forfarbotanists.org/jamesdrummond.html

Has anyone had any success tracing his birth or family?

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 February 14 15:17 GMT (UK) »
Would this be his entry perhaps? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYJZ-FPX  See his father and brother were both called Thomas  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYJZ-DBXwww.abcbookworld.com/view_author.php?id=8548

Submitted entry here for James and family https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/3M38-RR5

Monica

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Offline tidybooks

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #3 on: Friday 28 February 14 16:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi wini,

I used to work in this area, and can remember streets in Bonnyrigg starting with Hawthornden, so I think they were just named after the castle, which is a lovely building. I cannot remember a village .

Look at this link, http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y83/

There is a lot of history attached to the castle.

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.


Online Forfarian

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 February 14 16:11 GMT (UK) »
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #5 on: Friday 28 February 14 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Tom and Forfarian, with confirmation of the location of Hawthornden, still cannot see the connection to James Drummond chr. Jan 1787 in Inverarity and Methy, Angus. Is there anything remotely similar to that in that parish I wonder?

Reading their stories, what a fascinating life these men had. My husband's great grandfather was curator of the Royal Botanic Gardens in Calcutta. Amazing lives of a period.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Forfarian

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #6 on: Friday 28 February 14 17:05 GMT (UK) »
Tom and Forfarian, with confirmation of the location of Hawthornden, still cannot see the connection to James Drummond chr. Jan 1787 in Inverarity and Methy, Angus. Is there anything remotely similar to that in that parish I wonder?

Well, there are quite a lot of big houses in Angus, not dissimilar to Hawthornden. One of these is Foth(e)ringham, but I have no knowledge of a Hawthornden in Angus, and certainly not in Inverarity.

The fact that James Drummond named his Australian property Hawthornden suggests to me that he believed himself to be connected to the Drummonds of Hawthornden. Perhaps his father Thomas had come from there to work at Fotheringham? Though I suspect it would be more than a little difficult to prove it :(

I see a marriage of Thomas Drummond to Elizabeth Nicoll in Inverarity in 1786. If this Thomas is a gardener, it could be his marriage. There are three other baptisms of Drummonds in Inverarity: Margaret 1788; Euphemia 1790; Thomas 1793. The fact that there are no other Drummonds in Inverarity does suggest that Thomas had moved there from some other place.

(Wild and improbable speculation: could Elizabeth Nicoll have been connected to William Nicol, inventor of the Nicol prism? William Nicol came from Midlothian, not far from Hawthornden, and a relative of his, Jean Nicol, was the wife of Edward Sang, one of a large dynasty of Sang gardeners, and the author of various gardening books. He also edited The Planter's Kalendar, published in 1812, the work of Walter Nicol, who had died in 1811. Walter too was 'a near and an esteemed relation' of Jean Nicol, though Sang, annoyingly, does not specify the exact relationship. )
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #7 on: Friday 28 February 14 17:21 GMT (UK) »
I found this pdf connected with younger son Thomas www.forfarbotanists.org/thomas_drummond_detail.pdf  From that I am reading that Thomas Snr was already head gardener at Fotheringham House by the time younger Thomas was born. The marriage for parents took place in Inverarity on 18th March 1786 and then first born son James born towards the end of year/very early 1787 (with the christening being the date it was).  Maybe OPR images could provide some place names.

Monica

Added: Found an image for the marriage of Thomas Drummond and Elizabeth Nicol from March 1786....one of those very much poor one liners  :-\

Also found an image to James' christening in early Jan as showing above. Only father named as we saw from Family Search index, and Thomas father refered to a gardener...so right entry we would think.
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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #8 on: Friday 28 February 14 17:47 GMT (UK) »
I wonder whether any of the baptisms of the Drummond children list witnesses, and if so whether they are informative?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.