Author Topic: Hawthornden  (Read 7420 times)

Offline tidybooks

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #9 on: Friday 28 February 14 17:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica and Forfarian,

I spent sometime going through the NAS for Drummond's of Hawthornden, and I get the impression that they were quite influential, one of them, William, has many letters to Bishops etc., so I don't get the impression that they were gardeners.

However I could not find a birth or baptism for James Drummond in 1784, there is one in 1788 at nearby Dalkeith but no way of proving it to be the correct one.

I am not sure of any connection between Drummond's of Hawthornden and Fotheringham, Angus.

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #10 on: Friday 28 February 14 19:10 GMT (UK) »
Ahhh...separate topic...NAS is up and running again  ;) ::)

Tom, everything I have seen, and there is a lot given how noted the two sons of Thomas Snr, James and Thomas Jnr were, points to their births in Angus in late 1786/7 and 1793. Can't see any reference for this generation to Midlothian at all so far  :-\

Forfarian, no reference to witnesses or sponsors for christening to James b. late 1786/7. The register seems to be one of those one liners, in this case, not even mentioning the mother's name...as was the marriage in for Thomas Snr and Elizabeth Nicol mentioned earlier. The Clerk obviously believe in brevity  ::)

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #11 on: Friday 28 February 14 20:12 GMT (UK) »
If this book ref is correct www.rootschat.com/links/0y8d/, there is a relevant Drummond connection to Perthshire (sourced as the immedicate location for the family lines we are looking at) and 'the Drummonds from Hawthornden' but likely (if connected) some generations back...

Monica
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #12 on: Friday 28 February 14 20:28 GMT (UK) »
If this book ref is correct www.rootschat.com/links/0y8d/, there is a relevant Drummond connection to Perthshire (sourced as the immedicate location for the family lines we are looking at) and 'the Drummonds from Hawthornden' but likely (if connected) some generations back...

Yes, Drummond Castle at Muthill in Perthshire http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NN8418 (with gardens http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NN8417) is a principal seat of the Drummonds, and I imagine the Drummonds of Hawthornden are related.

However the name of James' property in Australia must point to his connection being via the latter rather than directly to the former, surely?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline MonicaL

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #13 on: Friday 28 February 14 20:31 GMT (UK) »
Hard to say at this stage I think  :-\ Thomas Snr. is given as being born in Perthshire from other people's research. From earlier - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/3M38-RR5

Monica
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #14 on: Friday 28 February 14 20:46 GMT (UK) »
That looks perfectly possible, but it is from a tree submitted to Family Search. I never trust anything that is in a submitted tree - I use it as a pointer for possible future research, and I would want to see some sort of proof that it really is the correct Thomas Drummond, and not just that someone has found a likely-looking candidate and decided it must be the right one.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline wini

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 01 March 14 02:53 GMT (UK) »
Thanks everyone. I have just started the book so will see if I glean any further information.
My interests is not the Drummonds per se but the district here in Toodyay.

Looking at the illustrations there is a John Nicol , Euphemia MacKintosh and a Ewan MacKintosh, so as I go throught the book I will let you know what I find

wini
Gunn, Cree, Reid,McNeice, Munro, McPhee
Jackson, Gillies,Gebbie. McCredie, nicolson, McAskill,
MacKinnon,Morrison,Campbell,

Offline Janeesca

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 21 June 15 16:06 BST (UK) »

Hi,
I noticed your interest in The Drummond Family from Hawthornden, Lasswade, Miodlothitian. The following link maybe of some help. I have copied & pasted the interesting part from the link below.       
Incidentally, my 3xG.Grandmother, Agnes Currie from Lasswade, gave birth to an illegitimate son in 1821 at Hawthornden, she was employed as a servant at Hawthornden House. I now live not far from there, but I lived for a few years in Cupar, Fife, where Hill of Tarvit House is sited.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Jane Joy

http://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getperson.php?personID=I3628&tree=CC

Scot was three times married: first, to Anne, sister of William Drummond of Hawthornden, the poet, by whom he had two sons and seven daughters; secondly, to Margaret, daughter of Sir James Melville of Hallhill; and thirdly, to Margaret Monpenny of Pitmilly, widow of Rigg of Aitherny, by each of whom he had one son. The son by his second wife, George Scott (died 1685), is known as a writer on America.
Sir John's male descendants became extinct in the person of Major-general John Scot, M.P. for Fife, his great-great-grandson, who, at his death on 24 January 1776, was reputed the richest commoner in Scotland. The general's fortune passed chiefly to his eldest daughter, who married the Duke of Portland, but the estate of Scotstarvet was sold to Wemyss of Wemyss Hall .
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_John_Scott_of_Scotstarvet]

Offline dumork

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Re: Hawthornden
« Reply #17 on: Friday 24 July 15 23:35 BST (UK) »
My wife is descended from Euphemia Drummond, sister of botanists James and Thomas Drummond (both of whom have biographies on Wikipedia). I note Euphemia is listed on the FamilySearch tree  mentioned. She is buried at Inverarity, sharing a memorial with her daughter and son-in-law. I've seen the book about James Drummond and his house Hawthornden in W Australia. The book provides no evidence, other than family tradition, of a link to the Drummonds of Hawthornden (Midlothian, family mausoleum in Lasswade).

From the other end, I've looked at genealogical information about the Drummonds of Hawthornden (whose separation from the Drummond Castle Drummonds was way back, 1300s/1400s, I think). The family boasts the poet Drummond of Hawthornden active c1650, whose fame would make for an attractive genealogical connection. However, I could not find any convincing line leading to the Inverarity Drummonds. Indeed the Hawthornden lairdship died out in the male line, though the husband of the inheriting daughter took the name and title.

The FamilySearch tree mentioned claims parents and grandparents for Thomas sr, but I don't have access to any supporting evidence or documentation. The claimed grandfather, also Thomas Drummond, married in Edinburgh in 1706, which would provide a possible link to Hawthornden, if valid.

There is Forfar Botanists garden in the town, which marks the lives and achievements of James and Thomas Drummond, as well as of a gardener named Don (ancestor of BBC gardening presenter Monty Don). It features some of the many plants named in their honour.
Barton, Bell, Coltart, Jardine, McNight, Richardson, Smith, Tweedie:D&G.
Firth, Flett, Linklater, Loutit, Robertson, Taylor, Wards: Orkney