Author Topic: 1791 Census or Parish records?  (Read 6736 times)

Offline sandon

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1791 Census or Parish records?
« on: Thursday 06 March 14 04:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I am researching my G G Grandmother Jane Middlemiss Born 1819 in Branxton, Northumberland
Died 1909 in Ford, Northumberland - she was married to my G G Grandfather William Gray Born 1813 in Ford, Northumberland, Died 1889 in Ford.

My cousin found a 1791 birth for Jane Middlemiss' mother, also named Jane. I have nothing else to go on for either Jane.

Is there someone who can look up births/deaths in pre-1800 Branxton or Ford or Glendale areas?
Thank you!

Sandon
Canada
Gray
Thynne
Settle
Nussbaumer
Vonlanthen
Nilsen
Nelson
Pearson
Wakem
Wakeham

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 06 March 14 06:36 GMT (UK) »
Have you tried FreeReg (.org.uk) or FamilySearch (.org)?

GenUKI details for Branxton: http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Branxton/index.html
Read the section Church Records.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Offline davidft

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 07 March 14 15:42 GMT (UK) »
I think the 1791 birth date for Jane's mother is questionable due to this 1861 census entry

William Gray  49
 Jane Gray  43
 Robert Gray  15
 Margaret Gray  14
 Jane Gray  11
 Elizabeth Gray  9
 Mary Gray  7
 Isabella Gray  4
 William Gray  10/12
 Elizabeth Middlemiss  59 <<<<< sister in law

As you will see Jane's sister is corn c1802 so if she had the same mother as Jane then that would make her mother only 11 when she was born
When and where did they die ?

Joseph Dodd born 1847 Corbridge, Northumberland  and Isabella Dodd (nee Thirwell) born 1848 Allendale, Northumberland. In 1911  they were living at Leadgate, Durham.

(As well as there being several people of these names around the surname is sometimes given as Dodds)

Offline davidft

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 07 March 14 15:51 GMT (UK) »
And going by what should be the 1841 census for Jane and Elizabeth it would suggest their parents names are William and Margaret (NB in 1841 family relationships not given)

William Phiddlewriss*  73   
 Margaret Phiddlewriss*  68
 Elizabeth Phiddlewriss*  39
 Jane Phiddlewriss*  23
 Margaret Hay  91

*Phiddlewriss is a bad transcription of Middlemiss
When and where did they die ?

Joseph Dodd born 1847 Corbridge, Northumberland  and Isabella Dodd (nee Thirwell) born 1848 Allendale, Northumberland. In 1911  they were living at Leadgate, Durham.

(As well as there being several people of these names around the surname is sometimes given as Dodds)

Offline sandon

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 07 March 14 16:00 GMT (UK) »
THANK YOU so much DAVIDFT - Yes, it makes sense that Jane's mother's birth cannot have been in 1791.  We had no idea that Phiddlewriss was converted to Middlemiss. This is fascinating! I wonder if all Middlemiss' were originally Phiddlewriss or if this was just a one-time sloppy transcription.

Does the Census go back further or are there other records in Northumberland that I can check?
I must check the origin of Phiddlewriss. Perhaps Scottish?
Gray
Thynne
Settle
Nussbaumer
Vonlanthen
Nilsen
Nelson
Pearson
Wakem
Wakeham

Offline davidft

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 07 March 14 16:08 GMT (UK) »
1841 is the first real census

I have just looked at the 1851 census and Elizabeth is still with William and Margaret (Middlemiss is written as Middlemis this time) and this time it does confirm her as the daughter of William and Margaret. So looks to confirm Jane's parents as William and Margaret - I will have a look tomorrow to see if I can find a baptism for her

I am suspecting the Margaret Hay in 1841 may be Margaret Middlemiss' mother - but that is only speculation
When and where did they die ?

Joseph Dodd born 1847 Corbridge, Northumberland  and Isabella Dodd (nee Thirwell) born 1848 Allendale, Northumberland. In 1911  they were living at Leadgate, Durham.

(As well as there being several people of these names around the surname is sometimes given as Dodds)

Offline davidft

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 07 March 14 16:18 GMT (UK) »
This is fascinating! I wonder if all Middlemiss' were originally Phiddlewriss or if this was just a one-time sloppy transcription.

Does the Census go back further or are there other records in Northumberland that I can check?
I must check the origin of Phiddlewriss. Perhaps Scottish?

Phiddlewriss is just a transcription error, the name is correctly Middlemiss
When and where did they die ?

Joseph Dodd born 1847 Corbridge, Northumberland  and Isabella Dodd (nee Thirwell) born 1848 Allendale, Northumberland. In 1911  they were living at Leadgate, Durham.

(As well as there being several people of these names around the surname is sometimes given as Dodds)

Offline sandon

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 07 March 14 16:24 GMT (UK) »
"Phiddlewriss is just a transcription error, the name is correctly Middlemiss"

Ah, thank you davidft   I misunderstood

Thank you also kgarrad, I'll research Middlemiss further on FreeReg and Family Search

Cheers,
Sandy
Gray
Thynne
Settle
Nussbaumer
Vonlanthen
Nilsen
Nelson
Pearson
Wakem
Wakeham

Offline davidft

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Re: 1791 Census or Parish records?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 08 March 14 18:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I went to have a look for the baptism of Jane Middlemiss today but unfortunately had no luck as I had not realised the records I was going to look at only went up to 1812.

The records for Branxton do exist but it would involve going to Northumberland Archives, Newcastle or Durham as explained on the Genuki page for Branxton.

http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Branxton/

Another problem you will have is all the places you are interested in are very close to the Scottish border and there is a large non conformist population so not finding say a baptism in the Anglican records does not mean there is not one, as it may be in a non conformist register somewhere.

I did look at an index for Branxton from 1813 to 1839. There were no baptisms for a Middlemiss (but as this is only an index it could be Jane was missed). There is a marriage in 1824 for an Andrew Middlemiss – possibly a brother to Jane and Elizabeth. He married Elspeth Tarbit and this was a dissenter marriage. There are some Middlemiss burials but none that I could tie in to your Middlemiss’

What follows is conjecture but may help as a suggestion as a way forward.

From the 1841 census we see Jane and Elizabeth (sisters) are living with a William and Margaret Middlemiss aged 73 and 68 respectively. This suggests that William was born c1768 at Norham (from 1851 census) and Margeret was born c1773 at Tweedmouth (from 1851 census). Also with them is a Margaert Hay aged 91 (born c1750) who I suspect is Margaret the youngers mother. Margaret Hay was born out of county according to the 1841 census.

Looking at Tweedmouth marriages there was a marriage of a George Hay to a Margaret Nesbit on 31 Aug 1771 (familysearch says 1772). This Margaret could be the 91 year old Margaret in 1841.
There was then an earlier baptism of a George Hay son of George Hay of East Ord on 8 Apr 1749.
Then there was a marriage of a George Hay to a Frances Stamford on 4 Aug 1745.
Before that the Hays do not appear to come from Tweedmouth, and neither does Margaret Nesbit (later Hays)

From the GRO indexes the death dates of William Margaret and Margaret are
Margaret Hays 1842
Margaret Middlemiss 1855 (or 1860)
William Middlemiss 1853

All this would have to be verified to your satisfaction but I hope it gives some useful pointers
When and where did they die ?

Joseph Dodd born 1847 Corbridge, Northumberland  and Isabella Dodd (nee Thirwell) born 1848 Allendale, Northumberland. In 1911  they were living at Leadgate, Durham.

(As well as there being several people of these names around the surname is sometimes given as Dodds)