John Thurston Stephens, possibly John Thurston Tuthill, born 1843

[sugarfizzle]

I started this thread a year ago

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=635467.0

I am revisiting this family, and the plot thickens.

LadyHawk (reply 5) - I had discounted death registration Dec Q 1890 Shoreditch, Lydia Eleanor Stephens age 66, as I knew that John Robert Tuthill Stephens had emigrated to NSW c 1853, had children there with Anne/Annie, so had assumed that Lydia must have died.

I cannot find a Lydia Eleanor Stephens/Tuthill in any census - any takers?
Searching marriage records, first name Thurston, surname Stephens, two caught my eye -

Marriage St James's Church, Shoreditch, Middlesex
P63 E126 16 Apr 1865
John Henry Thurston Stephens, 22, Bachelor, Confectioner, 1, Chapel Street
Father John Stephens, Billiard Board Maker
Ruth Peach, 24, Spinster, , 50, Curtain Road
Father Robert Peach, Brass Moulder

Marriage St James' Church, Shoreditch, Middlesex
P202 E403 9 Jun 1867
James Stephens, 21, Bachelor, Artificial Flower Traveller, 18, Leonard Street
Father John Thurston Stephens, Billiard Table Maker
Alice Gee, 18, Spinster, , 22, Leonard Street
Married after Banns
Father Edward Gee, Boot Maker

I cannot find these two men, assumed to be brothers, prior to their respective marriages.

1871 John Henry Stephens, Head, , M, 27, Artificial Florist, b [  ] St Luke's, Living in Finsbury
Plus Ruth and family
1881 Ruth a widow, no death registration found for John Henry Stephens

1871 Jame Steven, Head, Mar, M, 25, Labourer at Gutta Percha Works, b St James, Living in Islington
Plus Alice and family
1881 James Stephen, Head, Mar, M, 35, Insulated Wire Covering, b Seven Dials, Living in Islington
Plus Alice and family
1891 James Stevens, Head, Mar, M, 44, Electric Wire Foreman, b Clerkenwell, Living in Islington
Plus Alice and family
1901 James Stephens, Head, Mar, M, 53, Time Keeper Electric Wire Company, London, b Clerkenwell, Living in Islington
Plus Alice and family

Probate
James Stephens of 151, Downham Road, Islington, Middlesex, died 8 Jun 1907.  Probate London 21 August 1909 to Alice Stephens widow.  Effects £20

There are several inconsistencies - the added name of Henry for John Thurston Stephens, birth places for the 2 men etc, but also several consistencies. 

I am now wondering whether Lydia stayed in England with 2 young sons, whilst John emigrated to Australia and started a new family.  No marriage record found for John to Ann/Annie in either England or Australia.
If only I could find Lydia, John and James in census prior to 1871, either together to prove that they were related, or separately to disprove ----

Oh, the joys of family history research

Margaret

[sugarfizzle]

Eureka!!  (or perhaps/maybe)

Births St Martin
James Stephens Tuthill
Jun qtr 1846 Vol 1 p133

No baptism found, no census records, no death registration, previously though to have been son of William Tuthill and Jane Barrett.

In 1881 James gives his place of birth as Seven Dials, which is very close to St Martin's.  I think I will have to order this certificate.

Margaret

[jennifer c]

There is also a Sarah Stephens Tuthill  reg  Dec Qtr 1844 St.Martins in the Fields

Jennifer

[jennifer c]

There is a death for her the same qtr.

Jennifer

[blogger]

Hi

Thurston, Snooker Tables.

Thought I remembered the name.
Thurstons are still trading www.Thurston.co.uk

Why not contact them to see if they have any knowledge?
They say that they have been trading for "200 years"

[sugarfizzle]

Thanks, Jennifer and Blogger.

Birth St Martin's, John Robert Tuthill, Jun qtr 1842
(assumed to be John Thurston Tuthill, son of John Robert and Lydia Eleanor, baptised St Giles in the Fields, 10 Jan 1843 with 2 Hopkins cousins)

Birth and death St Martin's, Sarah Stephens Tuthill, Dec qtr 1844
(previously assumed to be daughter of William and Jane, due to conjunction of names of Stephens with Tuthill, before I knew of the existence of any other Stephens/Tuthill family.  No baptism/burial record found)

Birth St Martin's, James Stephens Tuthill, Jun qtr 1846
(previously assumed to be daughter of William and Jane, due to conjunction of names of Stephens with Tuthill, before I knew of the existence of any other Stephens/Tuthill family)

So 3 children's births registered in the same district, all likely to be children of John and Lydia Eleanor Stephens/Tuthill.

Blogger, I have been in touch with Thurston's several times.  They have no information about my Stephens/Tuthill family, who traded under the name of Hopkins and Stephens, and advertised themselves as 'nephews of the late John Thurston'.  They sold billiard table and accessories to Charles Darwin.  Strictly speaking, Hopkins wasn't a nephew but his wife was, so they thought they could get away with it, not sure if they could try it in this day and age..

Margaret

[sugarfizzle]

One more piece in the jigsaw puzzle.  I have found John Thurston Stephens/Tuthill, son of John and Lydia Tuthill, in 1851, whether he is the same one who married Ruth Peach in 1871 I am still unsure, though it is looking increasingly likely.

Research into Lydia Eleanor Wilson, who married John Roberts Tuthill, 31 Oct 1841, Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London

Marriage St Martins in the Fields, Middlesex, 10 May 1818, Hugh Wilson and Lydia Wedderburn, botp

Baptism St Giles in the Fields, 18 Jun 1832
George Hugh, Parents Hugh and Lydia Wilson
Lydia Eleanor, Parents Hugh and Lydia Wilson
Abode 6 New Compton Street, Father's occupation Saddler
(Doesn't say that Hugh was deceased, and Lydia would have been c. 8 at the time, but other things fit in)

Marriage St Pancras, Middlesex, 21 Sep 1829
James Douglas widower and Lydia Wilson widow, botp

1841
John Lambert Dugsdale, M, 37, Bookseller, N
Sarah Dugsdale, F, 36, , Y
Lydia Wilson, F, 17, Feathermaker, Y
Address Frederick Place, St Pancras
(Sarah Dugsdale nee Wedderburn was Lydia senior's sister)

James Douglas and Lydia senior not found

1851 census
James Douglas, Head, Mar, M, 52, Tailor, Northumberland, Newcastle on Tyne
Lydia Douglas, Wife, Mar, F, 53, , Mddx, Covent Garden (Blind)
John Stephens, Grandson, Unm, M, 8, Grandson, St Martin's
Address 9, Searles Place, Finsbury, Liberty of the Rolls
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1512; Folio: 481; Page: 5

No James, no Lydia jnr, no John snr., but I'll carry on looking.
Now I have an approximate year of birth for Lydia Eleanor in 1824, the death registration Dec Q 1890 Shoreditch, Lydia Eleanor Stephens age 66, looks increasingly likely.

The search continues.  Tuthill is a relatively easy name to research, why did they have to use the name of Stephens as well?

Margaret

[sugarfizzle]

Update
I have found Lydia Eleanor Stephens, nee Wilson in all censuses from 1841 - 1881, and am personally convinced that she stayed in England whilst her husband, John Roberts Thurston Stephens/Tuthill emigrated to Australia.  Divorce was uncommon, I think, in those days, and no marriage found for him to 'Anne/Annie', mother of his children in Australia.  His first child in Austalia was Henry Archibald Stephens, born 30 Jul 1854, baptised 20 Aug 1854, St James', Sydney.

Three children in England, John, James and Robert, gave their father's occupation as Billiard Table maker at marriage.

1841
John Lambert Dugsdale, M, 37, Bookseller, N
Sarah Dugsdale, F, 36, , Y
Lydia Wilson, F, 17, Feathermaker, Y
Address Frederick Place, St Pancras
Source Citation: Class:HO107;Piece:684;Book:3;Enumeration District:3;Folio:26;Page:4
(Sarah Dugsdale nee Wedderburn was Lydia senior's sister)

1851 census
John Lambat Dugdale, Head, Mar, M, 47, Bookseller, Stockport
Sarah Dugdale, Wife, Mar, F, 47, , Mddx, St James, Westminster
Lydia Steevens, Neice, Mar, F, 27, Artificial Florist, Mddx, St Clement Danes
Christr Moore, Visitor, Widr, M, 34, Book seller, Mddx, St Luke
Address 50, Holywell Street, St Clement Danes, Westminster
Source Citation: Class:HO107;Piece:1512;Folio:127;Page:24

1861
Lidia Stevens, Head, Wid, F, 34, Artificial Florist, Mddx, Westmr
James Stevens, Son, Unm, M, 14, Errand Boy, Mddx, Westmr
Robert Stevens, Son, Unm, M, 12, Errand Boy, Mddx, Westmr
William Stevens, Son, Unm, M, 8, Scholar, Mddx, London, St Dunstans
Address 82, Harrison Street, St Pancras, Marylebone
Source Citation: Class:RG 9;Piece:106;Folio:105;Page:67

Marriage St James's Church, Shoreditch, Middlesex
16 Apr 1865
John Henry Thurston Stephens, 22, Bachelor, Confectioner, 1, Chapel Street
Father John Stephens, Billiard Board Maker
Ruth Peach, 24, Spinster, , 50, Curtain Road
Father Robert Peach, Brass Moulder

Marriage St James' Church, Shoreditch, Middlesex
P202 E403 9 Jun 1867
James Stephens, 21, Bachelor, Artificial Flower Traveller, 18, Leonard Street
Father John Thurston Stephens, Billiard Table Maker
Alice Gee, 18, Spinster, , 22, Leonard Street
Married after Banns
Father Edward Gee, Boot Maker

1871
Lydia [H/E] Stevens, Head, Mar, F, 45, Flower Maker, Middlesex, Lincolns Inn
William Stevens, Son, Unm, M, 18, Flower Stamper, Middlesex, Fetter lane
Address 26, Remington Street, St Luke's, Finsbury
Source Citation: Class:RG10;Piece:398;Folio:80;Page:32

1881
Lydia Stevens, Lodger, Wid, F, 56, Artificial Florist, Middlesex, Westminster
Address 42, Haberdasher's Shop,  St Peter's St, Islington
Source Citation: Class:RG11;Piece:271;Folio:72;Page:15

Marriage St Mary's, Islington, Middlesex
P178 E356 25 Dec 1883
Robert Stephens, Full age, Bachelor, Engineer, 48, Shepperton Road
Father Robert Stephens, Billiard Table Maker
Mary Ann Thorne, Full age, Widow, , 36, Shepperton Road
Father John Murphy, Porter
Marriage after Banns
Witnesses Kate Tugenburg X, Henry Tugenburg

Death Woolwich Dec qtr 1890
Lydia Eleanor Stephens, age 66

Margaret