Author Topic: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864  (Read 4184 times)

Offline scotmum

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 03 May 17 08:12 BST (UK) »
Quote
I was hoping to attach a snippet of Christopher's faint details regarding his marital status however it would not happen

The instructions at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459330.0 may help.
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Offline scotmum

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 03 May 17 08:55 BST (UK) »
According to headstone (located 1st Broughshane Presbyterian church) inscription transcribed at:

http://thebraid.com/genealogy.aspx

Hannah Redmond's (nee McMillan) father, Alex McMillan, died 23/2/1854 aged 79.


A son, William A Redmond, died in 1868 aged 20.

Her mother, Mary, died in 1869 aged 88.

A daughter, Annie, died in 1890, aged 39.

Hannah herself died in 1901, aged 84. From her death certificate, she died at Tamybuck and her son in law A Knox was present at death. From marriage certificate, Alexander Knox married Harriet Redmond at Buckna Presbyterian church on 26/8/1886. Witnesses were a Bella Knox and Thomas Buick.

In Buckna visitation/communicants records, McMullin seems to be used rather than McMillan.
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Offline scotmum

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 03 May 17 09:03 BST (UK) »
Also, from same site as my previous post, at St Patrick's C of I, Broughshane:

Quote
Erected, in memory of, Christopher Redmond, of Claggan who died in March 1858, aged 52 ...years Also his son Christopher who died 2nd December 1879 aged 43 years...

The Christopher jnr above had a wife, Hannah, who died in 1928 aged 78.

If he was the Christopher who married in 1864, his wife was Jane Hannah Hamill.
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Offline KiwiRose

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 03 May 17 21:20 BST (UK) »

Thank you scotmum for all your additional information and help.

If Christopher Jnr died aged 43 in Dec 1879 then he would have been born in c1836. This was well before his father Christopher Snr's 1847 marriage to Hannah McMullan.  Jemima who was also born before the 1847 marriage would therefore probably be a full sibling of Christopher Jnr.

 I will study the  "How to attach....." and see if I can master it. As usual, it was my lack of  computer skills that was the problem when trying to paste the snippet of Christopher Snr's 1847 marriage certificate. Sorry GRONI for blaming you!

Kind regards,
KiwiRose.
Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson, Palmateer, Larrabee.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.


Offline scotmum

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 27 February 21 22:11 GMT (UK) »
It has been a few years, and you have probably long since established that Christopher's 1847 marriage did indeed describe him as widower.
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Offline KiwiRose

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 03 March 21 04:47 GMT (UK) »
Scotsmum, thank you for your interest in my Redmond thread.

Yes, although it is somewhat faint it looks like Christopher was a widower. It helps to confirm his marital status as his son Christopher Jnr was born c1836 some 11 years before his father’s 1847 marriage.

Although the two Redmond women below named their father as Christopher Redmond, a farmer, when they married in 1866 and 1864, neither were mentioned in the 1858 will.

Elizabeth Redmond’s first-born son was named Samuel Redmond Cupples. None of her six sons were given the name Christopher. Elizabeth b c1839, married in 1866 and living in Clonetrace at the time, died 1887 in Clonetrace.

Jemima Redmond had six McNeill children.  Neither of her two sons had the name Christopher, nor did any of her six children have Jemima’s maiden name. Jemima was born c1845, married 1864 a house servant living in Buckna at the time, and died 1928 probably in Munie North, Glenarm.

Elizabeth and Jemima Redmond’s marriage witnesses have not given me any obvious clues regarding their Redmond family connections.

Should Elizabeth and Jemima be the daughters of the above Christopher Redmond they would have been only around 18 and 13 years old at his 1858 death and surely in need of some financial support. The girls’ mother must have died between Jemima’s c1845 birth and their father’s remarriage in June 1847.

 Were the two girls fostered out as they would only have been c6 yrs and Jemima, a toddler in 1847? Did both girls remain with and continue to be cared for by their foster family after Christopher’s remarriage?

Christopher named all his children in his will with the exception of Elizabeth and Jemima. He included Mary Carpenter, a married daughter, as well as Christopher Jnr who were both from his first marriage. Elizabeth and Jemima’s exclusion continues to puzzle me if they are indeed his daughters.

 Maybe there really was another Christopher Redmond in the same district who was their father, although Rootchatters have not found any evidence of one.  I remain stumped!


Kind regards,

KiwiRose
Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson, Palmateer, Larrabee.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.

Offline scotmum

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 03 March 21 09:15 GMT (UK) »
Thinking outside the box for a moment. I wonder if Elizabeth and Jemima could have been born to Hannah, albeit she was a spinster, before her marriage to Christopher? The girls could have then been brought up with Christopher as their step dad, but believing he was their dad, so naming him as such at their marriages. If it was a situation like this, it could then, perhaps, account for him not including them in his will, as they were not his actual children.
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""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

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Offline KiwiRose

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 04:29 GMT (UK) »
Scotsmum. Thinking outside the box often can bring down a brickwall. Thanks for your suggestion that Christopher could have been a stepdad. I hadn’t thought of that possibility so researched the idea.

Hannah married widowed Christopher Redmond in 1847.
Hannah was 83yrs when she died in 1901, so would have been born c1817.  If Elizabeth Redmond, later Cupples, was born c1839 (based on her age at death) Hannah would have been c22yrs old and at Jemima’s 1843-1845 birth she’d have been c26yrs, so your tip is a probability.

Two of Hannah’s children had died before Hannah:  William in 1868 and a married daughter, Annie Adams in 1890. Also, a possible married daughter or step daughter the above Elizabeth in 1887.

Headstone:
See also Reply 10.

Hannah erected a Redmond/McMullan headstone at the First Broughshane Presbyterian Church in memory of her parents and her children, William and Annie (Adams). I’m unsure if the Thomas Redmond mentioned in his father Christopher Redmond’s 1858 will was from the first family or is a child of Hannah’s. He remains a mystery son. Perhaps he emigrated as I have not found him in any Antrim search. Maybe he died between 1958 and civil registration in 1865. No Thomas on the headstone.

 At the same church was a Cupples headstone that included Elizabeth (Redmond) Cupples d 1887 erected by Elizabeth’s husband, Joseph.

Will:
I also checked out Hannah’s Redmond’s (nee McMullan) will, dated 12 Sept 1891. She only mentions her daughter Harriet Knox and a widowed ‘niece’ Mrs Christopher Redmond (Hannah Jane nee Hamill). She requested Harriet to pay a Mary Eliza Morton?  the sum of €10.

Hannah’s will must have caused a family dispute as there is a case reported in the Ballymena Weekly Telegraph of Nov 9th 1901 involving her executors, Harriet Knox and Robert Montgomery against Thomas Adams who was Hannah’s son in law. I could only view a snippet.

Harriet Knox, Hannah’s only proven surviving child, and family seem to have emigrated to NSW, Australia around 1911.

Names:
None of Elizabeth (Redmond) Cupples or Jemima’s (Redmond) McNeill’s daughters had the name Hannah.

Unfortunately, after researching the idea that Hannah was Elizabeth and Jemima’s mother it now seems less likely.

As not many Presbyterian churches have their pre-registration surviving birth, baptism, and marriage records online then, other than helpful online wills, researching outside civil registration in Ireland to verify relationships is not easy.  I ‘m so grateful that irishgenealogy.ie has all the earliest civil marriage records free on line. The information contained in the marriage records has proven to be very valuable, especially with my common Co. Antrim surnames. I can’t wait for them to make available the 1864 – 1870 death records.  Maybe I’ll spot a clue in one of these death records when available.


Kind regards,
KiwiRose.
Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson, Palmateer, Larrabee.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: Redmond help. Marriage, Buckna Presbyterian, Racavan. 1864
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 07:21 GMT (UK) »

Quote
Hannah herself died in 1901, aged 84. From her death certificate, she died at Tamybuck and her son in law A Knox was present at death.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05739/4620186.pdf


Hannah was 83yrs when she died in 1901, so would have been born c1823. 


??
Hannah was 84, so born c1817.


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo