Author Topic: Ann Whitten  (Read 2758 times)

Offline Malcommon

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Ann Whitten
« on: Monday 14 April 14 19:48 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I'm trying to find any information about Ann (Stark) Whitten born 1876 Dundee, Forfarshire. Her mother was Mary Bell born 1857 Whitby Yorkshire daughter of Isaac Bell and Ann (Scott) Stark both born Scotland. Ann S Stark  was born 1825 Kinghorn . I don't know if Ann Stark was married to Ann Whitten's father. Mary went on to marry James Gracie born 1858 Dronley Forfar. and they emigrated to the USA.settling in Wilminton Middlesex Massachusetts. They had sons James and Isaac but could have had other children too. Any other information on the family is welcome too.

Hope someone can help
Thank you, Margaret

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #1 on: Monday 14 April 14 23:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Margaret,
I am a little confused by your post :-\
You say that Ann (Stark) Whitten's mother was a Mary Bell.
Then further on in your post you say - I don't know if Ann Stark was married to Ann Whitten's father. Did you mean Mary Bell may not have been married to Mr Whitten?  :)

Anyway have you looked on Scotland's People for Ann Whitten's 1876 birth? The registration of her birth should be on that site. Her certificate should have her parents names ,occupations and if they are married the place and date of their marriage. If Ann's mother was unmarried it could well be that the birth in registered as Ann Bell .
Good luck with your research,

Looby :)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 April 14 23:56 BST (UK) »
This could well be Ann on the 1881 Census listed as Ann W Bell (W for Whitten?) aged 4 at St,Andrews , Forfarshire (Angus)  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM6V-RRC
There is an Ann Whitton  on the 1891 Census age 15 AT  St. Andrews https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KSNN-T8V

Again the original Censuses can be  viewed on Scotlands People which will give you the household and hopefully address.  :)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 00:14 BST (UK) »
Sorry, Margaret, but I am confused by all these brackets. When you put brackets, do you mean, for instance, that Ann (Stark) Whitten was born Ann Stark and married a Whitten, or that Ann (Scott) Stark was born Ann Scott and married to a Mr Stark?

You say that Ann (Stark) Whitten's mother was Mary Bell, then you say that you don't know if Ann Stark was married to Ann Whitten's father. Are you suggesting that Mary's child was fathered by a man who may have been her stepfather?

The 1881 census lists at 18 Pole Park Road, Liff and Benvie (which is the neighbouring parish to the west of Dundee; the city had expanded into this parish) James Gracie, aged 21, born Auchterhouse, Angus; Mary Gracie, 23, born Whitby, Yorkshire; Ann Gracie, daughter, aged 6, born Dundee; Ann Stark, mother-in-law, 47, jute reeler, born Kinglassie, Fife.

Dronley is in the parish of Auchterhouse.

If Ann Stark was aged 47 in the 1881 census, she would have been born in 1833/4. Kinghorn and Kinglassie are both parishes in Fife, and therefore mutually exclusive. They are not even next to one another.

I can't find a likely birth for Ann Gracie in the IGI. Nor can I find an Ann Whitten born in 1876 or about then. There is an Ann Whitton, but she is only six months old and living with different parents, Peter Whitton and Rachel Bruce.

James Gracie might be James Nicol Grassie, born in Auchterhosue on 5 November 1858, parents James Grassie and Agnes Taylor. In which case he should have been listed as 22 in the 1881 census, not 21.

You need to go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, invest in a few credits at modest cost, and use some of them to find and download the marriage certificate of James Gracie and Mary Bell, which a 'contributed' listing in the IGI suggests was in 1879.

Use some more credits to find the birth certificate of young Ann. If she was 6 in 1875, she was born in 1874 or 1875, but search a year or two either side. If she was illegitimate she would be registered in her mother's name; she might also be registered in her father's name, but only if he accompanied her mother to the registrar's and signed the birth certificate together with her mother.

I see that the only male Whitten in Dundee in 1881 was John Whitten, 23, general labourer, born Dundee, who was in Dundee Prison.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline Malcommon

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 11:42 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Sorry if I have confused you, I'll try and make it clearer. Starting from the beginning.
My ggggrandfather was John Stark born  c1794 he married Janet Scott born c1795, they had a son James who is my gggrandfather born 1821 Kinghorn and a daughter Ann baptised 1825.
In some references I found her as Ann Scott Stark. She went on to marry Isaac Bell born c1816 and they had a daughter Mary.

Janet Scott died c 1827 and John Stark married Elizabeth Minorgan.

In one of the census, I think may have been 1851 or 61  I found Ann and daughter Mary, with step mother Elizabeth Stark and half brother John two  half sisters, niece Ann Stark and others  in High Steeet, Kinghorn.

In 1881 James Gracie and Mary were living  18, Pole Park Road it recorded Mary as being born in England 1858.  I found a birth for a Mary Bell father Isaac and mother Ann  born 1857 Whitby Yorkshire, I think this is the same family.
 
In 1891  I found Ann c1825  her age  as   67 years widow, don't know when Isaac died, with James Gracie 33,   wife Mary 34,    James R  Gracie c1884   Isaac Gracie c1888  and also Ann Whitten age 15 .

In  1901 I  found  Ann  Scott Bell age 78  at 64, Pole Park Road ,  with Ann S Whitten  I'm not sure if the S was for Stark or Scott. she was recorded as being granddaughter born Dundee age 25 years single. also with them was James R Gracie recorded as grandson age 16 years.

I'm interested in Ann S Whitten I think she must be an  illegitimate daughter of Mary. I want to know if her father was called Whitten?, gave her his name but did not marry her mother Mary. I have not found a previous marriage for Mary. I will try and get a birth cert. for Ann Whitten.

Thank you for your reply, I hope you find my reply clearer.
Regards
Margaret 
 

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 13:18 BST (UK) »
Hi again Margaret,
Thanks for taking the time to type out all you know :) It helps us Rootschatters to get a good picture  ;D

Now Ann Whitten/Whitton may have been born and registered as Ann Bell if Mary was unmarried. In Scotland , in the case of an illegitmate child the father's name could only be included on the birth cert if he attended at the time of registration. If he did not attend the child was registered under the mother's name.
This however did not prevent people giving the father's name as the child's middle name. Also in many cases the child just assumed and was therefore known by it's reputed father's name and therefore may appear on Censuses  or marriage certs with it. Often in an effort to be more "respectable" illegitimate adults were a little economical with the truth when they married and made their parents a married couple -giving their mother the married  name she never had on their marriage cert Hope I've explained that OK :-\

Your best bet to find Ann's birth is on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.
Do you know if Ann Whitten married? It would be interesting to see who she named on her marriage certificate if she did. You know she was still unmarried in 1901 at 25 so she may have married sometime after that. Again you can check on Scotlands People.

Good luck with your search,
Looby.

PS. Just noticed that Forfarian gave same info as myself in her last post regarding the rules re. father's name on birth cert. Sorry for repeating  :-X


Offline Malcommon

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 18:24 BST (UK) »
Many thank to Forfarian and Looby for all your help and information,

   regards
 Margaret

Offline crwhitton

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 May 14 15:51 BST (UK) »
Annie Stark Whitton born 1875  died 13-1-1910 Royal Infirmary, Dundee.  She had married  Charles Burnett Robb 2-12-1901  at 17 Lawrence Street, Dundee  Her mother was  Mary Jane Ann Bell who died 19-5-1891  at 229 Hilltown, Dundee  her father was reputed to be a William Whitton. Her mother married  James Gracie  17-10-1879.  James Nicoll Gracie  remarried 17-5-1892  a Christina White a widow whose surname was Walker. Christina died in Boston 1932 as far as i can see.

Offline Malcommon

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Re: Ann Whitten
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 15 May 14 21:43 BST (UK) »
 Thank You, C R Whitton . I am thrilled to get so much information. I had found a death for Annie but not the dates, I did not know she had married. It's so sad she died so young.
 I did get a birth cert for Annie but it only named  her mother so thanks for her fathers name.

I found an old photograph belonging to my late grandmother but all it had written on the back
was Tina and Rodney.I believe it was taken in America.I knew some family had emigrated and when I found a Christina linked to the Gracie family I wondered if the 'Tina'  in the photograph was the same family. I don't know how long ago this photograph  was taken so I may never find out.

Thank again

 Regards Margaret