Author Topic: Welsh / English speakers in same house  (Read 5996 times)

Offline iolaus

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Welsh / English speakers in same house
« on: Monday 14 April 14 21:14 BST (UK) »
I decided to have a look at who previously lived in my house so these people are not related to me but it brought up an interesting query

In 1911 there is a family - husband, wife and two teenage sons.  In the final column on the census it asks about language - stating if only speaking Welsh put Welsh, only English put English if fluent in both put both

Both parents and the elder son  have Welsh down, the younger son has English - how did that work?

Offline hunkyhywel

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 01:14 BST (UK) »
A fairly common occurrence I think.
The family most likely spoke Welsh in the home but their daughter learned English at school and used that as he primary language out of the house. It was seen as a mark of prestige for a Welshspeaker to have command of the English language.
E.g My grandmother grew up in a Welsh speaking home but learned English from 12yo in school. From then on she used English when she could as it was more respectable. I guess a little like an Englishspeaker and French?

Of course there are other possibilities. Adoption?

Online Ruskie

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 01:41 BST (UK) »
I think there was a plot to wipe out the Welsh language, so I agree that the daughter was probably taught English at school.

Glad to see the tables have turned and Welsh language is now promoted.

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 05:19 BST (UK) »
My mother was brought up in a Welsh speaking family in North Wales. I never recall any discussion of anyone trying to eliminate the language and they spoke it all the time. However a good command of english improved your employment prospects considerably and consequently was encouraged for that reason.
Elwyn


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Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 05:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks very interesting. It didn't have much impact in Caernarfon where everybody still spoke Welsh fluently in my mothers youth, and the majority still do today.
Elwyn

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 06:12 BST (UK) »
I suppose it's like any of these things - some areas fought against change more than others. Great to see the old languages and traditions continuing on. :)

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 15 April 14 09:55 BST (UK) »
I suppose, North Wales being the heartland of Welsh speaking, there wasn’t the same sense of a language under threat. My family always spoke Welsh and were proud of it (on the rare occasions they ever gave it a thought, since it was second nature to them), and I don’t ever recall any discussions about anyone discouraging them to speak it. I do however recall my grandmother being adamant that if you wanted to get on the world you need to be bilingual. So for that reason, in the 1930s, she encouraged her children to learn English thoroughly, in the way you would encourage a child to get a good degree or pass their driving test. Because it will help them in life.

Interestingly I was on the island of Inishturk, off the west coast of Ireland, a few years ago. Population is less than 100, and none speaks Irish these days (though there are Irish speakers not too far away). When I asked about it, they said that they had known for generations that there would be no employment on their small island for their children and they’d have to go off to New York or Dublin to get jobs, and that they would have a hard time and hardly anyone would employ them if they only spoke Irish. So they had always encouraged learning English, to the point that Irish had died out. Sad but perhaps a facet of the modern world. Feeding yourself and your family becomes more important than your heritage.
Elwyn

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Welsh / English speakers in same house
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 16 April 14 22:40 BST (UK) »
think it depends on the period - my welsh speaking grandfather was schooled in Bethesda at the turn of the last century and recalled experiences of being punished for speaking welsh. I live down south and people from  welsh speaking families of the 1930s/40s/50s tell me about how it was for home and chapel, but not to be spoken when with the general public. English was the language for getting ahead.

I have a scottish relative by marriage whose mother spoke gaelic, but did not pass it on as she had been brought up to believe it was only spoken by hillbillies like her from the Islands and she didn't want her offspring, who were growing up in southern Scotland,  tainted the same way.