Author Topic: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down  (Read 6533 times)

Offline gjsmall

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Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« on: Tuesday 15 April 14 16:32 BST (UK) »
Researching Alexander, my GGGF, who migrated to Australia. Believe his father was Edward Denney and mother was Jane Donaldson.  (Australian history reasonably well known and I am happy to pass on all that I have.)

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thanks,

Gavin

Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 17 April 14 20:56 BST (UK) »
hi How do you know about his birth date, what age was he when emigrating,  Surely the emigration date is easier to find in OZ than in Ireland
How do you know about believing his father was Edward Denney and mother was Jane Donaldson

From the one and only Ros davies website
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/D/De.htm#den
Miss Agnes DENNY . Kilkeel  daughter of David Denny; married Robert Shields 4 Mar 1853 CR
Miss Agnes DENNY . Kilkeel  daughter of Samuel Denny; aged 18 married James Scott 2 Mar 1854 CR
Charles DENNEY/DENNY . Kilkeel husband of Ellen Donaldson; father of Elizabeth b. 20 Aug 1868 & Sarah Jane b. 6 Apr 1871 & Mary Margaret b. 17 Jun 1873 CR
David DENNY . Kilkeel son of Samuel Denny; married Mary Irvine 6 Dec 1860 ; father of Charlotte b. 11 Feb 1869 & Mary Anne b. 1871 & Margaret b. 22 Apr 1873 & David b. 13 Oct 1875 & bpt. 7 Jan 1876 at Kilkeel Presbyterian Church CR; PR
Miss Isabella DENNY/DEANEY. Kilkeel daughter of Samuel Denny; aged 19 married Samuel Hanna 5 Jan 1853 ; mother of Isabella b. 1868 & Robert b. 1874 CR
J. DENNY . Kilmegan of Castlewellan ; a contractor in 1910 POD
John DENNY  . Drumgath area  with John Gilmore, Robert Davison & Alexander Trimble, charged with holding an illegal Orange Lodge procession near Rathfriland 1 Jul 1842 ; found not guilty but others given 3 months jail BN 12/7/1829
John DENNY . Kilcoo husband of Mary Copeland ; father of Mary bpt. 16 Jan 1793 at Bryansford Church of Ireland PR; FHL #823750
Miss Margaret DENNY . Kilcoo wife of James Harryman ; mother of Jane bpt. 8 Feb 1820 & Margaret bpt. 13 Jul 1822 & John bpt. 30 Nov 1824 & Sarah bpt. 27 Dec 1825 & Nathan bpt. 14 Dec 1827 at Bryansford Church of Ireland PR;FHL #823750
Miss Margaret DENNY/DEENEY . Kilkeel daughter of Samuel Denny; married George Forsythe 15 Nov 1852; mother of Robert b. 1866 & Elizabeth b. 1868 CR
Moses DENNY/DENNEY . Kilkeel of Ballinran ; husband of Eliza Ann McMurray ; father of Eliza b. 25 Mar & bpt. 20 Apr 1844 & Samuel bpt. Aug 1850 at Mourne Presbyterian Church PR
Robert DENNY . Kilkeel of Ballinran; husband of Elizabeth Hamilton; father of Nancy b. 25 Dec 1879 & Samuel b. 5 May 1881 & William b. 13 Jul 1883 & Robert b. 13 Mar 1885 HPA p171
Samuel DENNY . Kilkeel & Kilbroney b. 5 May 1881, son of Robert Denny & Elizabeth Hamilton of ballinran ; married Elizabeth Jane (Jenny) McDowell 25 Aug 1908 at Rostrevor Presbyterian Church HPA p171
Miss Sarah DENNY . Seapatrick regd. Banbridge; daughter of Edward Denny ; married Alexander Dodds 6 Apr 1860 CR
William DENNY . Kilkeel & Kilbroney b. 13 Jul 1883, son of Robert Denny & Elizabeth Hamilton of ballinran ; a soldier; brother of Samuel Denny; married Susan McDowell 25 Aug 1908 at Rostrevor Presbyterian Church HPA p171

Ros Davies widens the homesteads encountered on Griffiths below
ie Kilcoo, and Seapatrick regd. Banbridge

Plan search for Deaney,  Deney, Denney, Denny
Results
In Griffiths valuation see http://www.failteromhat.com/post1845.php there are only 4 homesteads spelt the main spelling Denny, note the post 1845,
these are
Denny   Samuel   Ballinran      Kilkeel Down
Denny   Joseph      Carrigenagh      Kilkeel    Down
Denny   David, Sr.   Ballinran      Kilkeel    Down
Denny   David, Jr.   Ballinran      Kilkeel    Down
Denny   James      Drumgreenagh      Drumgath Down
Trying other search terms this widens to,
Deany   James      Newry Street,Rathfryland   Drumgath Down

Trying the same for Donaldson
Donaldson   William   Ballykelly   Seapatrick   Down
Donaldson   Andrew   Village of Newtown,Kilpike   Seapatrick   Down
Donaldson   William   Newry Street,Rathfryland   Drumgath   Down
Donaldson   Margaret   Barnmeen   Drumgath   Down
Donaldson   Alexander   Ballinran   Kilkeel   Down
Donaldson   John   Barnmeen   Drumgath   Down
Donaldson   James   Drumlough   Drumgath   Down
Donaldson   James   Drumgreenagh   Drumgath   Down
Donaldson   Anne   Barnmeen   Drumgath   Down

Summarizing the results I reduce this to 3 possible civil parishes that offer clues where both names occur
Ballinran         Kilkeel   Down
Drumgreenagh      Drumgath   Down
Newry Street,Rathfryland   Drumgath   Down
Ballykelly         Seapatrick   Down
Village of Newtown,Kilpike   Seapatrick   Down

Possibly later including Kilcoo as it next door neighbour above Kilkeel parish and in the same rationalisation Kilbroney to Kilkeel

The same churches records keep being referred to
Bryansford Church of Ireland
Kilkeel Presbyterian Church
Mourne Presbyterian Church
Rostrevor Presbyterian Church

Do you know what denominations the OZ emmigrants belonged too.
My instinct is to look for any more Edwards, there is only one cited father of a daughter being married 1860, so lets guess born before 1840, If this Edward married young say 16, he could be the father immediately of  Alexander and 30 years later of Sarah, if his wife was younger than himself.

Where else to look for Edward Denny =  Donaghmore website, Castle Bagenal Newry area website, PRONI including the Tithe applotment books for Co Down1823-1837 visitors only,
Raymonds Co Down, NIFHS genealogical search engine, and lastly ancestryIreland.com which doesn’t have the right Edward denny but I dint try all the spelling variations.
Good luck onwards JIMG
Gracey Gracie Gracy Grassy Greacy
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Offline gjsmall

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1822, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 17 April 14 22:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info. 

I have changed the birth year to 1821 or 22, based upon his age at death (48) and year of death (Jan 1870).  (I visited his grave last year and have photographs if anyone is interested.  His Irish born wife Susan 'Cullen' - from County Clare - is buried in the same grave, although she lived many more years than he.) 

His parent's names come from his death certificate which I have a copy of and will share with anyone who would like a copy.  That is all we have to go on as the marriage certificate was destroyed in a church fire.  Susan likely supplied the information for the death certificate and we understand from family stories that she was illiterate.  (I have no parental data on Susan as the surname she used is likely to be in error, although probably phonetically similar.  Her death certificate does not list any parents.   I have a separate post about her.) 

Alexander arrived in Australia in 1841 on the ship 'Wallace', is listed as protestant and the given occupation was labourer.  The ship manifest states that he could read and write.

Alexander was a farmer in Victoria, Australia. 

Other than the children they had and other events in Australia, that is all I know.  I will look into what you sent.  Thanks again.

Offline Valsgirl

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 23 April 14 05:43 BST (UK) »
Re McDowell sisters Susan & Eliz. Jane (Jenny). These girls married Denny brothers William b 1883 & Samuel b 1881, on the same day, 25th August 1908.
According to 1901 Kilkeel Census, my grandmother, Agnes Leith & & her sister Elizabeth, were two of four orphans, living with widowed Mrs. Elizabeth McDowell and her daughters, Susan & Jenny. Jenny Denny & my Gran corresponded for many years, after my Grandmother married then migrated to NZ.
Not any help with your query, I'm sorry, Gavin, but others reading this Denny query, may know if this branch of the Denny family also emigrated.
Best wishes with you search for Denny data,
Valsgirl


Offline ballinran

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 19 August 15 20:39 BST (UK) »
I live in Ballinran Co.Down N.Ireland and there are still Denney and Donaldson in  Ballinran ,yes they were all the one coming from Edward ,I have a bit of a Denney tree on ancestry and the McDowell also had a link to Ballinran and there is still some living in Ballinran

Offline Adaa

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #5 on: Monday 05 October 15 01:56 BST (UK) »
Hi.  I'm also a descendant of Alexander Denney - if I and another relative visited Ballinran next year, it would be good to meet any local Denneys and Donaldsons.  David W

Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #6 on: Monday 05 October 15 08:20 BST (UK) »
Hi all, sounds hopefully a great visit, some more records for you just in case you don’t have them
Flax Growers of Ireland, 1796 - County Down
http://www.failteromhat.com/flax/down.php
No Denny and variations, found.
Donaldson         Andrew               Kilkeel                         Down
Donaldson         George               Kilkeel                         Down
Donaldson         William              Kilkeel                         Down

The Tithe Applotment Books, the originals are available at PRONI Belfast.  No image of the original is online, and there is more description of the land they occupied.  So worth a visit. 
from
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/kilkeel-parish.php#.VhIU0kvU4YU
Denny, Edward    Townland: Ballinran Year: 1830
Donaldson, Cathn.    Townland: Derryogue Year: 1830
Donaldson, Jane    Townland: Derryogue Year: 1830
Donaldson, William    Townland: Ballynahatton Year: 1830
Donaldson, William    Townland: Kilkeel Year: 1830
Donaldson, William    Townland: Magheramurphy Year: 1830

In my previous note I didn’t mention that by looking up Griffiths valuation on www. askaboutireland.com website, you with patience can see a 1861 map[ie 1st series 1st revision with fields and buildings plotted on it at a scale of 1mile equals 6 inches, ie over 150 years ago.  There is an early map for 1830s known as the 1st OS series usually without fields marked in.  There is also a memoirs of the OS for Co Down that should have a section for it.

Preparation for a visit reading
Mourne Country: Landscape and Life in South Down by E. Estyn Evans

Mourne Area Of Outstanding Natural Beauty ...
www.mournelive.com/_.../Landscape_Conservation_Action_Plan_(LCA...
In Search of Water – Ballinran. • Hearthside Heritage ... and industrial heritage of their uplands and they willingly share their history, stories and .... sublimity'.  a downloadable pdf   excellently illustrated and helps understanding the geography etc Worth printing out!

Gazzeteer try http://www.ulsterplacenames.org/PDF%20Files/Newry%20and%20Mourne%20(C.%20Dunbar).pdf

Raymonds Co Down online
http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com (Official website)
http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.co.uk (Official website)
http://countydown.x10.mx

Old Kilkeel and Annalong by Alex F. Young, Des Quail
Turn Up the Lamp by J.S. Doran, Nick Scott (Illustrator)

Dont forget google maps, satelite and streetscenes and images
Have fun
Gracey Gracie Gracy Grassy Greacy
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Offline ballinran

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #7 on: Monday 05 October 15 18:56 BST (UK) »
Yes there is one Denney farm still and 4 Donaldson farm in Ballinran to day ,Donaldson came to Ballinran in 1830-1840

Offline Adaa

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Re: Alexander Denney, B 1819, Kilkeel, County Down
« Reply #8 on: Monday 05 October 15 22:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you both - so very helpful.  Hope to be able to make face to face contact at some stage next year.  David W