John and Robert Bailey

[wentworth13]

Name:   Thomas Bailey
Titles and Terms:   
Titles and Terms:   
Event Type:   Census
Event Date:   1841
Event Place:   Wilsford, Wiltshire, England
Residence Note:   Manningford Bohun
Gender:   Male
Age:   55-59
Age (Original):   55
Occupation:   
Relationship to Head of Household:   
Institution:   
Birth Date:   
Birth Year (Estimated):   1782-1786
Birthplace:   Wiltshire
Ship Name:   
Schedule Type:   
Registration District:   Pewsey
Book Number:   16
Sub-District:   
Parish:   Wilsford
County:   Wiltshire
Page:   
Page Number:   1
Line Number:   18
Registration Number:   HO107
Piece/Folio:   1186/4
Affiliate Record Type:   Household
GS Film Number:   
Digital Folder Number:   101721155
Image Number:   00188


Household   Role   Gender   Age   Birthplace
Thomas Bailey      M   55-59   Wiltshire
Maria Bailey      F   55-59   Wiltshire
Stephen Bailey      M   20-24   Wiltshire
Thomas Bailey      M   15-19   Wiltshire
William Bailey      M   12   Wiltshire
John Bailey      M   2   Wiltshire



Citing this Record:
"England and Wales Census, 1841," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M732-5JV : accessed 8 May 2016), Thomas Bailey, Wilsford, Wiltshire, England; from "1841 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.

This is the census record in 1841.

[lulubird]

Hi Wentworth,

Thanks for that. It has rather opened up a can of worms! I see that your post came from FindMyPast.  I was using Ancestry to try to find Thomas and Maria.  I tried them by name in Wiltshire in 1841. No joy,so I input Manningford Bohune into the 1841 census collection and up it came.  I went through every name and there were no Baileys listed so I presumed that was that. 

It would appear that Ancestry has missed the first two pages of the Manningford Bohune 1841 census and heaven knows where the other pages are after pages three and four!  Their census starts with John and Emma Ogland who you will see at the top of the page after that featuring the Baileys on FindMyPast.  It makes one wonder how many times this may have happened and could explain the non-appearance of a number of people on our trees.

Interesting stuff.

Linda

[wentworth13]

HI Linda
I knew I had seen it but I have only had FindMyPast for a little while and that was not where I saw it first.
I am sure there is a lot wrong with some of the data because as you say it is in one place and supposedly should be the same in another. They vary a lot. I try them all.
I believe Thomas died either 1845 or 1848.  I cannot find him on any 1851 census. Maria the same. Sometime between 1841 and 1851. The three boys showing in 1841 all came out to South Australia.
As for the baby JOHN no idea. Perhaps a grandson.  Not delving into that.
Thanks for your interest
Pat

[lulubird]

Hi again,Pat,

Both Thomas and Maria were alive and living together in Manningford Bohune in 1851.  Check under Maria BAILY born 1783 in the FindMyPast 1851 census.  He's listed as 66,born in Pewsey, and a pauper and former ag lab and she's listed as 68 and born in Manningford Abbots.  Hope you find it!

Linda

[wentworth13]

Thanks for that.  I should have looked at all the spelling of Bailey. The name has stumped me quite a few times.
Thanks
Pat

[wentworth13]

HI Shillingstone
Found this. As you can see the marriage took place 10years after Thomas's birth. Have found a few interesting things. Will attach so you can see.

Name:   Stephen Bailey
Birth Date:   
Birthplace:   
Age:   
Spouse's Name:   Mary Brabham
Spouse's Birth Date:   
Spouse's Birthplace:   
Spouse's Age:   
Event Date:   18 Jun 1795
Event Place:   Hampshire, England
Father's Name:   
Mother's Name:   
Spouse's Father's Name:   
Spouse's Mother's Name:   
Race:   
Marital Status:   
Previous Wife's Name:   
Spouse's Race:   
Spouse's Marital Status:   
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:   
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:   I03915-4
System Origin:   England-EASy
GS Film number:   1278952
Reference ID:   



Citing this Record:
"England Marriages, 1538–1973  ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N61X-F26 : accessed 11 May 2016), Stephen Bailey and Mary Brabham, 18 Jun 1795; citing Hampshire, England, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,278,952.

Also you have seen the Sarum Bonds Marriage.  I read that even if this was recorded they may not have married then. It depended a bit on money.

Also I saw that Mary and her mother were on Wiltshire Removal Orders. Is Hampshire in Somerset?
I will try and copy that record for you.


First name(s)    Mary
Last name    BRABHAM
Birth year    -
Removal year    1772
Removal day    14
Removal month    May
Age    -
Place    PEWSEY
Removed from place    Pewsey
Removed from county    Wiltshire
Removed from country    England
Removed to place    Wivelscombe
Removed to county    Somerset
Removed to country    England
Notes    dau of Joseph & Mary
Head    -
Household    4033
Wiltshire & Swindon record office ref    A1/130
Record set    Wiltshire Removal Orders 1670-1890
Category    Institutions & organisations
Subcategory    Courts & legal
Collections from    United Kingdom

Wiltshire Family History Society

I think this is enough for you to digest. If I find anything else I will let you know.
Pat

copyright Wiltshire Family History Society

[Shillingstone]

Thank you Pat.

Mary Brabham seems to have had an eventful life. To check my understanding, this is the sequence so far:
- date of birth currently unknown
- Removed on 14th May 1772 from Pewsey, Wilts to Wivelscombe, Somerset (I wondered if the subcategory 'Courts & legal' has further significance, probably not)
- gave birth to Thomas prior to his baptism in Pewsey on 10th April 1785
- married Stephen Bailey ten years later on 19th June 1795 in Pewsey, by Licence (thanks to info from ribbo39). The alternative listing of their marriage as 18th June 1795 in Hampshire (the neighbouring county of Hampshire is not far away from Pewsey today and may have been a lot closer then due to periodic boundary changes. I will check this).
- date of death unknown
The gap between Thomas' birth and Mary's marriage seems unusually long. There are also no records yet of any further children (apart from your reference to another child, also called Thomas who died prior). That also seems unusual from a time when large families were the norm. But understandable, of course.

Regards,

Please send my regards to your 'Bailey' cousin, the descendant of William Bailey 1830-94. I am planning to visit Australia & NZ in Jan/Feb 2017. It would be fun to meet.

The above reminds me that I met Jack Brabham at Goodwood motor racing circuit some time ago. Have his signature on a ten pound note somewhere. Wonder if he was related to Mary?

[wentworth13]

Yes a bit of a mystery.
I was thinking did Stephen marry the Mother?.  Her name was Mary and there was a removal order for her. Wife of Joseph. That was in 1772. It is a pity the removal orders had no age for either of them. Perhaps Joseph died.
 Where was Stephen born? He must have had brothers and sisters.
I will start looking at the counties that surround Wiltshire as I am sure in those days they had to walk.
Also Joseph was not a name that seemed to be used a lot.  Very few were called it.
I have seen the birth of the first Thomas in 1780.  Spelt Bayley in reg. Bailey in BT.
The Pewsey Baptism's are not up on the Wiltshire OPC.

Will tell my cousin about this when I next speak to her.

[wentworth13]

Started looking and found the following.  You need to check the Somerset records because that is where Mary and Joseph appear to have come from.

Joseph BRABHAM (wife was Mary) and his son Joseph removed 14 May 1772 from Pewsey to Wivelscombe

MARY BRABHAM was buried 3 April 1772 Wivelscombe Somerset