Arthur Spence Cleaver

[traynorm]

Hello,

I am interested in chatting with anyone that has knowledge about Arthur Spence Cleaver who was born about 1870 and married Adelaide Pollock in 1905 in Belfast.

Thank you,

Michael.

[garstonite]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPBT-F7S

the marriage and re your other post - Adelaide Pollock - can`t find the marriage ?? or the birth of Adelaide Pollock

[heywood]

Hello and welcome 

There are some general references here and perhaps contacts for you http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=467656.0

Heywood

[heywood]

Arthur is in London in 1911 - as you know Adelaide is in Ireland

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW48-SMG

[traynorm]

Hello Heywood,

Many thanks for your interest and assistance.

That was good to find him already in London. Thank you.

I'll check out the references you suggest this evening.

Adelaide was in Bangor, Co. Down when the 1911 census was taken. By then she had given birth to 2 children, but only one was with her that night..... Cecil Alwyn Cleaver aged 4 years.

I don't know as yet if Arthur and Adelaide were separated by then or was it a case he was working in London while she stayed in Bangor to rear the children??

Many thanks again,

Michael.

[Annette7]

From what I find, Adelaide was born, married as Adelaide Franklin Pollock and died as Adelaide F. Cleaver 14/8/1839 in Sussex.

The other child referred to is with his father Arthur Spencer Cleaver (always Spencer, not Spence)in Stanmore, Middlesex, just 11 months.

He was Gordon Neil S. Cleaver -birth reg'd June qtr.1910 Hendon.

Gordon married 1939 Kensington, and died in Hampshire 1995 - birthdate given as 27/4/1910.

Electoral rolls from 1921 show them living in Paddington - he as Arthur Spencer Cleaver and she as Adelaide Franklin Cleaver.  In 1932 it shows also Cecil Alwyn Cleaver and a Spencer Cleaver (wonder if this is the younger son, the 'S' in his name standing for Spencer).
1933 Electoral Roll shows Arthur Spencer Cleaver, Adelaide Franklin Cleaver and Gordon Neil Cleaver.

Cannot see any other references to Cecil Alwyn Cleaver in England after 1932 and can't see that Arthur and Adelaide had any more children in England either.

So, whilst we cannot know why they were apart in 1911 she clearly returned to England after.

Arthur appears in Westminster in 1939 (the year Adelaide died in Sussex) and he is alone - shown as 'Lt.-Col.'??

Annette

[Annette7]

I see that Cecil Alwyn died in Tanganyika, South Africa on 11/1/1935 with Probate to Sir James Frederick Cleaver, Knight and Arthur Spencer Cleaver, Lt. Col. H.M. Army.

When Arthur Spencer Cleaver himself died 4/4/1941 probate was to Barclays Bank Ltd. and Gordon Neil Spencer Cleaver, Sqd. Ldr. RAF - he left a sizeable estate!

Annette

[traynorm]

Hello Annette,

Many thanks for your prompt response. I much appreciate it.

That is fantastic information. I only started researching Adelaide yesterday and with help from you and a couple of others in Roots Chat I'm building a picture already. Resulting from the information you supplied could I trouble you for a bit more information based on those answers please?

Cecil Alwyn Cleaver was their 4 year old son listed on the 1911 census for Bangor, Co. Down.

1). Do you have the address in Paddington that they were living at in 1921 rolls ?

2). I might follow up Arthur's service career. Like Adelaide he may have been a pilot. Perhaps he was in the RAF?. How did you find his rank as Lt. Col. ?

3). Do you know the address Adelaide was residing at when she died in Sussex on 14 August 1939 please?

4). When you found that Gordon died in Hampshire in 1995, did your source show an address he was residing at and a date of death?

5). I saw a reference to a Mrs. Hylton Spenser Cleaver. I'm not sure at this stage where the name "Hylton" comes into the conversation ??

Thank you very much for such valuable information Annette. I'm sorry I didn't find out about RootsChat for some of my previous research.!!. It seems an excellent site for sourcing valuable information.

Best regards,

Michael
(Dublin)

[traynorm]

Annette,

My apologies............ our messages crossed !!

Would you be so kind as to send me a link to those sources you found the probates for Arthur and Cecil please?

I am researching Irish female pilots that earned their licences pre-WW2, of which Adelaide is one of very few. Most of them had a large degree of wealth behind them..... and it seems Adelaide had good financial support from her husband to pursue her flying career.

Its interesting her son Gordon followed the aviation trail !!. Perhaps his father Arthur was also in the RAF ??

Kindest regards and many thanks again,

Michael.