Author Topic: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright  (Read 16256 times)

Offline jimmain

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #18 on: Friday 22 May 15 23:00 BST (UK) »
This is what I have on James Florence/ Catherine Williams:
James, born 8Jan 1875, Balhaggardy, Chapel of Garioch, was the son of James Florence/ Jane Smith.
Catherine, born 23Nov 1868, Monymusk, Aberdeen, was the daughter of John Williams/ Isabella Barrack.
Marriage record: James Florence 22, Bogend Oyne, cattleman, bachelor. Parents, James Florence, farm servant/ Jane Smith. Catherine Anne Williams 29, Bogend Oyne, housekeeper, spinster. Parents, John Williams, railway labourer (dec)/ Isabella Barrack. Witnesses, Jane Florence, William Williams.
It appears that Catherine had two children out of wedlock – George & John Handie. She then married James Florence 1897 and had at least 3 children – James, Isabella & William.
In the 1891 census: Catherine Anne Williams 23, poorhouse Inverurie Aberdeen; George Williams
12 (Catherine’s son); John Handie Williams 1m (Catherine’s son); Isabella (Barrack) Williams 49    (Catherine’s mother).
In the 1901 census: James Florence 26 labourer, Hillwell Oyne; Catherine 32; James 3; Isabella 10m; John Handie Williams 10 (stepson); Annie Johnston Williams 7; Annetta Morrison Williams 4.
Catherine Williams died 1901, Oyne.
James Florence death record: Died 11Dec 1960, Kirktown Oyne, railway surfaceman (retired), age 85. Spouse, Catherine Anne Williams (dec). Parents, James Florence, farm servant (dec)/ Jane Smith (dec). Died of myocardial degeneration with arteriosclerosis. Informant, William Florence, son, Inverurie.
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen

Offline rosinaj

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 23 May 15 16:24 BST (UK) »
Jim:   
Re: James Florence 1875-1960 & Catherine Anne Williams 1868-1949 (have copies of death
certificates) 
I didn't have the 2 sons of Catherines before marriage - will check that out.

James Florence had a son John Hardie b. Feb 18, 1891  with Florence Hardie before his marriage
to Catherine.
John Hardie enlisted in 27th Battalion Canadian Infantry March 30th, 1916 at 252-1/2 Main Steet
Winnipeg, Manitoba.  He died November 6, 1917 (26) buried Menin Gate (Ypres) memorial
Belgium plot panel 24-26-28-30   commemorated: Oyne War Memorial

The following are children of James Florence/Catherine Anne Williams m. Dec 4th 1897 Kintore. JAMES b. 28/02/1898 Glenbogie, Oyne    - didn't find any marriage or death for him
ISABELLA b. 1900 Glenbogie, Oyne m. Alexander Wilson Kennedy Feb 17, 1932 168/02 0053
she died 1977 (76) at Peterhead 313/00 0018
WILLIAM b. 1902 Glenbogie, Oyne m. Jessie Jane Elizabeth Ingram 1943 Inverurie  204/00 0022
he died 1961 (58) Royal Infirmary Northern District Aberdeen 168/01 0507
GEORGE b. 1905 Glenbogie, Oyne killed by train Leuchars, Fife Aug 21, 1930 (25)  445/00 0008
CATHERINE JANE b. 1906 Glenbogie, Oyne m. John Joiner April 14, 1928 Oyne 230/00 0001
she died Peterhead 2003 (96)  313/00 0036    John Joiner b. 1903 died 1982 (79) 313/00 0025
ELSIE MARY B. 1909 Glenbogie, Oyne spinster d. November 29, 1997 (88) Insch  318/00 0019
HENRY WATSON b. 1911 Glenbogie, Oyne d. Jan 6, 1913 (1) 230/00 0002

I've searched for descendants of all of the above children - I only found what I believe are the
children of Catherine Jane Florence/John Joiner.. I cld not confirm as Scotlands People had NO
Images  just data.

JOHN JOINER b. 1928 Peterhead 232/01 0149 m. Mary Strachan 1949 Peterhead 232/00 0014
Mary Strachan  d. 1990 Peterhead 313/00 0145
ALEXANDER JAMES JOINER b. 1929 232/01 0322 d. 2012 (82) Peterhead 313/00 0035
LEONARD JOINER b. 1932 232/00 0092 m. Sheila Wardlaw Birnie 1955  Peterhead 232/00 0026
d. 2013 (80) Peterhead 313/00 0145
CATHERINE ANN JOINER b. 1936 232/00 0241 m. Alexander Stephen 1960 Peterhead 232/00 0032

as I forementioned the above 4 children have not been confirmed as there were no images to obtain copies of B.M.D. certificates...
Next I will try to do some confirming & perhaps find descendants of the Joiner family who
hopefully maybe able to enlighten me if any of the family had heard mention of George Florence
fathering a daughter (my half sister)... The irony of it all my mother never told any of my siblings
or myself that she had a daughter (our half sister) and had left her back in Scotland to be raised by our grandmother - mom passed away in 1958 and an old auntie in Scotland proceeded to tell me in the early 90's about Molly who had died in 1979 - I flew to England in 1994 to meet Molly's daughter & son...Mom had never put the father's name on the birth certificate - but, the detective in me ferreted it out by way of Molly's name  - Molly Robertson Florence Wright ..Why mom kept it a secret is beyond me...
 I cld prattle on, as my brother-in-law always said I write like I talk never ending, so I'll close
on that note.
Regards,
Rosina


Offline rosinaj

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 23 May 15 19:47 BST (UK) »
Jim:
Have you been in contact with a Fergus Kennedy he has the Kennedy website 120115 at MY
HERITAGE.
He has data on James Florence/Jane Smith - of all their children he only had a marriage for
Catherine (Kate) Florence to William Knowles Third and their children William J. & Catherine J.
both born 1898 (twins)

I don't know the connection to the Florence family altho I do have Isabella Florence dau of James
Florence/Catherine Anne Williams married to Alexander Wilson Kennedy...But no mention of
them was in his data.
Rosina

Offline jimmain

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 23 May 15 21:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Rosina. I'm a bit confused now. I couldn't find James Florence in the 1891 census. However, as I noted before, in the 1891 census: Catherine Anne Williams 23, was in the poorhouse, Inverurie Aberdeen. A second look revealed that George Williams 12 was actually Isabella (Barrack) William's son, but John H William's was noted to be Catherine's son.
In the 1881 census: John Williams 66, gatekeeper, railway crossing, Inverurie; Isabella 39 (wife); Catherine 12; William 8; George 2.
So are John Handie Williams and John Hardie two different people? They were both born in 1891.
In the 1901 census: James Florence 26 labourer, Hillwell Oyne; Catherine 32; James 3; Isabella 10m; John Handie Williams 10 (stepson); Annie Johnston Williams 7; Annetta Morrison Williams 4.
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen


Offline rosinaj

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 23 May 15 22:26 BST (UK) »
Jim:
my computer is acting up - I hope u don't get this msg twice.

Sorry I hope it is not me confusing u - I try to keep my facts straight..

John Hardie was born Feb 18, 1891 the son of Florence Hardie & James Florence..   he was
illegitimate and no doubt raised by his mother as his next of kin on his death notice was
registered as his mother Florence Hardie, Oyne Aberdeenshire Scotland.

I guess Catherine had John Handie Williams before her marriage..    Handie versus Hardie no wonder u are confused..  Bear with me I'll try to put yr confusion to rest.
 
As I see Annie (7) & Annette Williams (4) were on the 1901 census with James Florence & family
I'll check to see who these girls belong to...

I find all these little intricacies a challenge, keeps my mind active in my old age.
Rosina


Offline rosinaj

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 24 May 15 00:57 BST (UK) »
Jim:
They are going to kick me off this website for taking up so much  space...You will be getting
tired of me too...

Sorry but I'm going to add to yr confusion..

John HARDIE Williams was born Feb 16, 1891 New Place Kintore 204/00 0023
mother: Catherine Ann Williams     -  where the name Florence Hardie came in on his death as
his mother (next of kin) unless Catherine gave him to her to raise..

Annie Johnstone Williams born Feb 18, 1894 23 North St.  Inverurie 204/00 0027
mother: Catherine Williams

Annette Morrison Williams born June 5, 1896 Tillykin, Kintore  204/00 0052
mother: Catherine Williams

Go into Google search : put in OYNE cemetery records & the tombstone inscriptions will come up
if u are unable to get them I will type them up but they are lengthy.

go to #'s 252 & 253 in regards to tombstone inscriptions for FLORENCE
#270: war Memorial 1914-1919 OYne Parish  In honour of the gallent men who fell in the war
& u will find Pte J. Hardie  200th Can.

I'll give u a break.
Rosina



Offline jimmain

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 24 May 15 14:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Rosina, Great info - thanks for that. Im always interested in those who served in the wars. My Dad was in the Air Force & I served as a Senior District Medical Officer for Veterans Affairs Canada for 10 years. Jim
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen

Offline flst

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 24 May 15 18:29 BST (UK) »
Rosina, you are welcome to make as many lengthy posts are you care to :) May I take this opportunity to remind you of rootschat's policy of not posting details of living or potential living persons? I have not edited your post but please use the pm system for more recent events.
Regarding the data on scotlandspeople: the images are not shown for privacy purposes. You can request a copy of the certificate but obviously this costs more than just downloading an image..
flst
TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY,  DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE,  CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON,  FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE,  STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE, WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER, JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW, IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE, WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.

Offline jimmain

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Re: James Florence/ Isabella Moir/ Margaret Wright
« Reply #26 on: Monday 25 May 15 14:09 BST (UK) »
I’m still quite confused. You indicate that Annie, Annette and John Handie Williams were all the children of Catherine Williams. John Handie Williams was born 16Feb 1891. Then James Florence had a son John Hardie, born 18Feb 1891 (mother, Florence Hardie).
In the 1891 census, Catherine is in the poorhouse, Inverurie, along with John Handie Williams.
In the 1901 census, after her marriage to James Florence, we find all three of Catherine’s children with James and Catherine, but where is John Hardie?? An interesting puzzle?
I also found a John Hardie, born 9Dec 1891, Ellon Aberdeen (father, Alexander), living in Hartley Manitoba, Regiment # 186310, Private, 8th Battalion, died 10Nov 1917. Buried Dozinghern Military Cemetery, Belgium. If these are two different people, how coincidental – both born the same year & died a few days apart! In the 1901 census, I found a John Hardie (parents, Alexander & Mary) at Ellon Aberdeenshire (26km north of Aberdeen).
You mention your father George. Who did he marry & who were his parents?
I’m not sure if you’ve had a look at the trees in Ancestry. The Simpson tree (if you Google James Florence/ Jane Smith) has some great photos of the Florence clan. FYI: my Dad’s sister was named Florence.
Main, Mitchell; Stirlingshire
Drummond; Perth
Florence; Aberdeen