Author Topic: Suffolk parish registers to go online?  (Read 18135 times)

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 11 June 14 08:27 BST (UK) »
The vast majority of digitised parish registers on FindMyPast and ancestry have been digitised from microfilm/microfiche, it's only in the last few years that some counties have digitised the originals.  In the case of Surrey, ancestry digitised the originals for Reigate but the fiche/film for Croydon and the latter are not very clear in quite a few instances.  The daft thing about it is that Reigate microfiche are very clear as I have microfiche copies. :-\  The recent uploads of Devon and Shropshire on FindMyPast are (as far as I've seen) all from the originals, but Hertfordshire went online (with gaps) last year on the site and they've been digitised from the fiche and there are quite a few issues with poor quality because of this.

Yes the incumbant's have to give permission for them to go online, but I suspect that the reason many have digitised the microform copies is more down to cost and ease (ie. they have the equipment to do this and its quicker to wind on a reel/move a fiche than turn a physical page) rather than necessarily copyright issues but yes it would depend on the original agreements.  Digitising the originals removes this issue anyway assuming the originals are held by the Records Office as they would only need permission from the incumbent.

I'm just hoping whoever digitises Suffolk does so from the originals, otherwise the Records Offices are going to get on-going requests to see the original registers because there are quite a few issues with many parishes on microfiche from my experience and we own microfiche copies of a number of west Suffolk parishes. :(  For example, parts of Somerton are completely unreadable because whoever digitised them (and I think it was the LDS) managed to blur a large number of pages.

For preservation purposes, digitising the originals is a much better idea because it reduces the need for people to check the originals.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

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Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 11 June 14 09:07 BST (UK) »
This seems to indicate internal staff resources rather than an external 3rd party is what they are looking at.

That was my initial thoughts when I first saw information about this the other month, but after reading the minutes, I'm not so sure.  It does say in those unconfirmed minutes that they are looking at the possibility of an agreement with a 3rd party to digitise on their behalf.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

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Offline helvissa

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 11 June 14 09:12 BST (UK) »
I saw a digitising machine at a library conference once (oh, my exciting life...) and it was rather clever as it has a scanner looking down from above, and it turns the pages automatically - it did it really quickly, too. However, I can't imagine you'd want to subject vellum to such a machine!

We recently got a digital fiche/film reader at work, which was amazing, as you can make pdfs or tifs etc from fiche - however, if the fiche quality ain't marvellous to start with, then you're a bit stuffed.

I would think as a money-spinner, parish registers are where it's at. If you think about Essex - they must be generating a lot of money from Essex Ancestors, but once you've got your sub for that, you're then going to start looking for wills (and the minutes say that the National Archives report that footfall in archives increase when you make other records more available). They've got theirs in their online index, and some of them are scanned in too, which makes life a lot easier. It does get difficult with Suffolk's wills not being catalogued/indexed online like that (and as most of my Essex folk are in the north of the county, they quite often bleed over into Suffolk, and I lose track of them rather easily... waaah....). Although you get some Poor Law stuff on A2A for Suffolk, whereas Essex's aren't catalogued/indexed online.

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 30 January 16 00:06 GMT (UK) »
Interesting report on SuffolkCC website from the Records Office - https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/assets/culture-heritage-and-leisure/suffolk-record-office/2015-09-21-FOSRO-AGM-Report-2014-15.pdf.  Pages 5-7 are of particular interest regarding digitisation of records.

The SRO are apparently only digitising themselves collections such as Probates, Marriage Licences, and Gaol records with the intention of making them available on pay per view downloads on their own website, a new version of which is apparently being launched this year.  I just hope they don't price them too high considering the level some of the ROs are charging for digitial copies, otherwise it may still be cheaper to get a microfilm print.  Only time will tell.

The parish register digitisation project looks like its being outsourced to a commercial partner.  Lets just hope they digitise the originals and not take the easy option of doing the microform copies. :-\
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline pinefamily

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 30 January 16 00:30 GMT (UK) »
Being in Australia, I am excited by any form of digitization, but obviously the clearer the better. A trip to the RO is a bit more expensive for me.  ::)
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Carrington, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Bentham, Holloway, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Yorks, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 30 January 16 00:52 GMT (UK) »
Pinefamily I agree any digitisation is good, its just that Wiltshire and Buckinghamshire charge 5 per Will (Buckinghamshire are admittedly only paper copies) and Hertfordshire charge 10.  5 isn't quite so bad if there are numerous pages, but many are only 1 or 2 pages, which makes them somewhat expensive. :-X  I also suspect it means they don't make anywhere near as much from the service than they would if they charged a more reasonable amount.

I think many of us had thought that, whether outsourced or not, the Probates would be included within a subscription package (or part of a 3rd party site subscription) rather than pay per view.  SRO currently charge 5 per page per Will to digitise them on demand, so lets hope that, as they are digitising them in advance, they are more reasonable with their prices.  Paper copies, even with the 5 admin charge, aren't anywhere near as high.

Only time will tell.  I've had a dig about via google to see if they had completed an agreement for PR digitisation as per the report, but all I can see was something looking for market interest from December.  Nothing else so far is visible via the CC website.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline pinefamily

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 30 January 16 00:57 GMT (UK) »
I fully understand your point, Smudwhisk. In the past, if I had a simple (one look up) enquiry, several archives/record offices have looked it up for me at no cost. This has changed, and I am now usually pointed towards their research costs.
It is interesting the range of charges. Admittedly I haven't ordered anything from any of them for a while, but in the past Surrey and Gloucestershire were quite reasonable. There are some that want to charge for absolutely everything.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Carrington, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Bentham, Holloway, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Yorks, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline Ringrose

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 30 January 16 10:09 GMT (UK) »
Find My Past have the following Suffolk transcriptions....Suffolk Baptisms 1538-1911,Early burials,Marriage Index,Wills .1847-1857and LambertdbFamilybAlmanavk 1888-1917.
It's a start and better than nothing.I remembered a few weeks ago I was using records from Sufolk for my Sudbury folk and I was sure it was FindMyPast.
Parish mouse site has all counties mentioned with the villages and what is on offer.I have found the odd transcription on this.
Ringrose
Mann Ringrose Prior( West London)Prior (Halstead Colchester and Sudbury)Ringrose (Northants) Clark(sussex  Bath)Light(Shropshire West London)Barber(Northants)Gaudern (Northants)Piper(Suffolk)Carter (Essex)Nightingale,Stiles,Dunk,Hedgecock(Kent)Mann(south Devon )Le Cronier,Le Quesne,Poingdestre,Esnouf,Le Guyt,Anley.Le Carteret(Jersey)Clark(Bath,Batcombe,and Nyland )
er(essex)Nightingale(kent Sussex)Sutton (sussex)

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Suffolk parish registers to go online?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 30 January 16 15:08 GMT (UK) »
The Suffolk transcriptions on FindMyPast are from the Suffolk FHS.

I fully understand your point, Smudwhisk. In the past, if I had a simple (one look up) enquiry, several archives/record offices have looked it up for me at no cost. This has changed, and I am now usually pointed towards their research costs.

The issue with more emphasis on customer's paying research costs rather than allowing free quick lookups will be down unfortunately to Council budget limitations.  They just don't have the staffing numbers now to do such lookups, although some perhaps are more helpful than others.

It is interesting the range of charges. Admittedly I haven't ordered anything from any of them for a while, but in the past Surrey and Gloucestershire were quite reasonable. There are some that want to charge for absolutely everything.

Its funny but I've always found Gloucestershire to be somewhat expensive.  Their microform printouts costs for those done by the customer in the Archive were 1 per copy whether A4 or A3 for some years prior to the records going online at Ancestry.  Yet other Archives weren't charging anywhere near as much.  I'd not had any experience of purchasing copies from them remotely because I only live an hours drive from Gloucester.  Similarly, apart from a couple of years when they halved the price, they'd charged 5 per copy fiche for parish registers for at least 13 years and when I challenged the Archivists about the fact their charges were about twice as much as other Archives, she claimed they were the average for the country.  Had to somewhat disagree since we've purchased copy fiche from a number of Archives over the years and they had always been at the top end of the price bracket. 

As for how much Suffolk RO will charge pay per view for their Wills when they make them online, only time will tell.  I appreciate they need to cover their costs and the service can't be subsidised by the council tax payer, but if they kept the prices more reasonable lets face it most people would purchase more than less and in the long term they'd cover their costs more easily and probably make more of a profit for the Service.  Their current 5 Admin charge for all copies, paper or microform, has always put me off ordering only a few copies because it pushed the price up so much.  We've tended to either user a local researcher we know for copies or waited to visit the RO itself.  I suspect going forward they won't be allowing photocopies of the original Wills so we'll end up incuring higher charges anyway whether purchased online or at the Archives.  I believe that is the case with Wiltshire for the Wills they have digitised.  Even if you visit the Archives you get charged a 1 per page for a copy from their digitised collection.  With Wiltshire, if a Will is the 5 or more pages, it tends to work out cheaper to purchase a copy online.  Lets just hope that Suffolk don't set the prices too higher. :-\

As for their parish register digitisation programme, fingers crossed they perhaps use one of the two main genealogy websites as that would mean no extra subscription. ;D  I know when my parents were at one of the SROs about 18 months ago and were talking to one of the staff, she did say that they would be digitising the original registers but, of course, depending on what agreement they do finally sign with a commercial company, that could always change.  Fingers crossed it didn't.  We know from experience, as we have numerous copy fiche, that quite a number of the fiche are completely unreadable in places.  I think the reasoning behind SRO getting the original registers digitised and not using the fiche/films was because the intention I think was to remove access to them.  If they only digitise the fiche/films, people will still need access to the originals where the images are unreadable.  Again, only time will tell.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day