Paisley parish baptism - Edwards

[Ali M]

oh and Sarah was born in Halkyn next door to Holywell.  Her parents were indeed the ones in the marriage record. 

[goldie61]

Where does Hugh Edwards say he was born? It's not clear which Census you found this in.
Have you checked out his parents just in case?

Looby - was the birth of Samuel in Holywell 1787? - you have written 1887. Typo?

Do you know when Samuel died? Do you have his death cert? If it was after 1858, have you found him on the National Probate Calendar?
Just trying to follow all avenues to try to get any more info about him!

[loobylooayr]

Ali -the baptism detail I provided you with is a baptism of a Saml Edwards  on 5th Aug 1787 in Holywell .


I found it interesting that both Samuel and Sarah are recorded as being born in Paisley (Incidentally does the Census record also have Renfrewshire ? ) .
Bearing in mind that a Census enumerator recorded the information given to him and it is he who has written Paisley not Samuel or Sarah - could it be he wrote down what he thought he heard?? I've been looking for somewhere in the area of Holywell that could have been misheard as Paisley.
So far I've not come up with anything  .

All of the surviving Old Parish Records - Births & Baptisms/Banns & Marriages/Deaths & Burials are indexed and their images can be viewed on Scotlands People - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. This is a pay-to-view site . But you can search the index for free -
I've checked for a birth of a Sam***  Edward* from 1780 to 1790 for all countys of Scotland. Unfortunately there is no match anywhere. So if Samuel was born in Paisley no record survives or perhaps ever exsisted (not everyone had their children baptised /it cost money ).

Perhaps you could  upload a portion of the 1851 Census entry and let us see the handwritten places of birth for both Samuel and Sarah?

Looby

Just noticed your post Goldie. Oops andd thanks for noticing!

[anne_p]

Looby

The 1851 census states BOTH Samuel and wife Sarah were born "Paisley, Scotland"   

Written  in full against Samuel and dittoed for Sarah

Toxteth Park
Samuel Edwards   64 Head Labourer. b Paisley, Scotland
Sarah Edwards   63 wife                      ditto
Joseph Edwards   26 son                  b Liverpool
Jemima Edwards 28 daughter in law b  ditto

[loobylooayr]

Oh well, bang goes that theory 

Sarah wasn't born in Paisley, and if Samuel was the record isn't on Scotlands People.

[Ali M]

Hi everyone,
some interesting avenues to explore thank you.

answers (as best I can) in no particular order
Hugh I can only find in 1841 census "out of county"  - a fairly cursory look suggests most likely birth is in Merionethshire.- not promising

you are right  the census only says Paisley, Scotland with no mention of Renfrewshire.  I have also wondered if a) Sam answered for both of them (not unknown at that time! and if he simply said Paisley and the census taker used his/her geographical knowledge to fill in the gap - maybe not correctly.

I've looked again at the original (unsure how to upload to this format)  the writing is very clear BUT there may be two hands.  Samuel has Paisley in the last column and then just above it in smaller and darker writing Scotland.  Sarah has first " ditto" and then a capital D in the same darker writing as Scotland above.  I would not be at all sure the Paisley and Scotland were different hands but do think ditto and D are, with D added later.

So, please what other Paisley could Sam have meant?

and sorry my mistake I did mean the 1787 Holywell record had the wrong parents' names.

I only know that Sam was alive in 51 and Sarah a widow in 61.  No children married between those years so no more "sightings" of either of them.  I haven't found a definite death record for him

thanks to you all
Alison

[loobylooayr]

Hi Alison,
Yes you are correct Samuel could have answered for both himself and Sarah. Then again it could have been another member of the household who gave the information for all.
I don't know enough about Census recording to advise on the two different handwriting but the darker word Scotland maybe in a different hand would certainly suggest it was written later.
As far as I'm aware there is only one Paisley and that's the one in Renfrewshire Scotland. And during the 1780s there were certainly people with the Edward/s surname in Paisley and the County. But there were far more Edwards in Flintshire.
I still wonder if the place name given to the enumerator was misheard and he wrote down what he interpreted the location to be.  This happened and in fact there are several humourous threads on The Lighter Side Rootschat board about such incidents.
A Welsh accented voice pronouncing a Welsh place name to a Lancashire ear??
But then again maybe Samuel was Scottish and from Paisley 
Keep digging Alison 
Looby

PS. Maybe would be a good idea to have a question on the Wales board. Maybe someone on the Flintshire board , with local knowledge, might be able to shed some light.

[geniesjm]

Hi Alison

Samuel Edwards & Sarah Jones are also my 3xgt grandparents and I am descended through their son John Edwards, who was convicted and transported to Australia in 1832. I found John’s baptism but not his parents’ marriage and had not looked at this line for a long time. I was so excited when I discovered Samuel & Sarah in the 1851 Census on Ancestry.  I was about to follow the Paisley trail, when I saw your information and the Welsh connection.  I think that I have possibly found Sarah’s death and Will, but not for Samuel.  Have you had more success with this family?

Hope to hear from you
Sylvia

[Ali M]

Hi Sylvia,  how exciting! and how neat to hear from you.  I will be home tomorrow and will check what new information I have about the Edwards.  I did wonder what happened to John as he has been the only sibling I couldn't trace - now i know why.  Will pm you tomorrow  with what info I have & would love to know about Sarah's will not to mention John's history.
warm wishes
Alison