Author Topic: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups  (Read 2448 times)

Offline solidrock

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #18 on: Friday 09 February 18 01:20 GMT (UK) »
The manifest for Lord William Bentinck in 1841 says "John 35 Agricultural Labourer", which would make him born around 1806. Maybe this is him...

John Francis. born 23 Mar 1805, baptised 14 Apr 1805, Maidstone, Kent.
father John,  mother Philadelphia.

John Francis  m  Philadelphia Osborne. 22 Apr 1804, All Saints, Maidstone, Kent.

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Offline solidrock

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #19 on: Friday 09 February 18 03:46 GMT (UK) »
I'm getting confused with John Francis now, are you sure that the burial you have is the same person as the records say John M Francis, if it's right what does the "M" stand for. Also on the manifest list of
Lord William Bentinck he has 6 children plus 1 that died at sea but on the New Zealand, Archives emigration register there are only 2 children, Jas Swan Francis and Mary Francis. 

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Offline Janet Mc

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #20 on: Friday 09 February 18 05:01 GMT (UK) »
It is always difficult isn't it?

John Francis' death registration says he was 73 at his death in 1872 (which gives us a c 1799 date) but the age on board ship gives a c 1804/5 date.

The question is - which do you regard as the more accurate? I have generally found the death registry ones better. They're more official.

I can think of many reasons why ship board ones were less accurate - I imagine they were in a long line and children were crying ... I have noticed that women who should be listed as older often give a much younger age on board ship. I am not surprised that JF might say he was 35 (it sounds better than 40 when you're going around the world and want to be on that ship...).

One of the difficulties is that of all the possible parents - none of them are both among the names of their children e.g. no Philadelphia's in the next generation.

I'm basing things on probabilities - i.e. that since both his marriages were in Kent that he was born there.

Unfortunately, he has too common a name - and he died 3 years too early and so his parents weren't listed on his NZ death certificate.

I may never know but I'm working on eliminating possibilities and getting to the most likely. At the moment that is the Penshurst family until someone proves that that JF died or married someone else.

I have some newspaper articles for JF's death - he was crushed by a log - that tie him to Frances his wife and also her obituary ties them together again.

Offline solidrock

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #21 on: Friday 09 February 18 08:25 GMT (UK) »
Maybe worth a follow up...


John M. Francis
Born 14 Oct 1800 in Staffordshire, England, United Kingdommap
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of Frances (Pearce) Francis married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Husband of Sarah Ann (Tomkin) Francis married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of Julia (Francis) Benge   
Died 12 Jul 1872 in Lower Hutt, Wellington, New Zealand

Offline Janet Mc

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #22 on: Friday 09 February 18 09:45 GMT (UK) »
Yes, that is on some people's sites but there is no proof listed by anyone. I think they simply wanted an 1800 date.

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 10 February 18 07:29 GMT (UK) »
OK, I'm still on the case, let me run this past you.
You have a Stephen b 1824 as on of John and Sarah's children, this is before they were married in 1826. On the manifest of Lord William Bentinck there is Francis, Stephen Swan age 21, this suggests to me that Sarah was either married before to a Swan or that was her maiden name and Stephen was illegitimate. There is also Jon Swan Francis b 1823. I have studied the manifest thoroughly and various transcripts  and have no reason to think it is incorrect. What are your thoughts?

Offline Janet Mc

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 10 February 18 12:34 GMT (UK) »
Those Swan's are rather confusing. One of the Francis daughters, later married Stephen Swan. It looks like the Francis family was escorting them out to NZ. Was this because they were orphans or joining family already in NZ? Were the Swan family relatives of John Francis?

This thought has never occurred to me. I'm going to see if a 'female Francis' married male Swan in the between 1810-19.


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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 11 February 18 06:43 GMT (UK) »
I think all the Swann's are siblings but I can't connect them to the name Francis, Thompkins or Pearce.
There are a family of Swans born in the Maidstone area...

Stephen Swan. 1817.
John Swan.      1820.
James Swan.    1822.
Frances Swan.  1824.    All born Marden, Kent. to Thomas Swan and Frances Swan.


Offline Janet Mc

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Re: John FRANCIS of Kent - baptism lookups
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 11 February 18 07:55 GMT (UK) »
It would have been great if it turned out the mysterious Swan/n family were relatives. That might have helped us work out which John Francis was the correct one.

I think that this is the correct Swan family - the Marden one.

This list seems to have 3 siblings - Stephen, James and Frances on board (Stephen's age is a 3 years off but the other two are correct).
I guess my questions are - when did their parent die? i.e. were they orphans and perhaps sent to find a new life.
* What about their sibling - John - had he died or married?

I have two sets of ancestors on this one ship - John and Catherine PHILPS. Their 14 year old son. Henry married Elizabeth Francis - only 3 when she first met him.

https://www.geni.com/projects/New-Zealand-Settler-Ships-Lord-William-Bentinck-1841/14311