Author Topic: Meadow Street, Ligoniel  (Read 3130 times)

Offline Jolene1987

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Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« on: Thursday 24 July 14 11:49 BST (UK) »
Hi
I have a birth certificate of my grandmother's sister, Annie Black 1892. The address is Meadow Street, Ligoniel.  I couldn't find this on google maps so i am assuming the street isn't there anymore?  Also I have checked street directories for this year and couldn't find any Black's on the Street. (father was James Black).
Can anyone shed some light on the above?  Thanks  :)
Black, Dunlop, Pritchard, Todd, Kelso, Hamilton, McGarry (all Belfast based)

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Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 24 July 14 16:48 BST (UK) »
I nearly gave up on your difficult query, but think I found a breakthrough at the tail-end. Now as I try to sent to you all my work, I have accidentally erased everything.  Using PRONI street directories I established there was a Ligoneil village section but it also included Ballysillan and Wolf hill. In 1895 its about page 420. There is an entry for a Robert Black of Glenbank in that section. My problem is Inow haven't time to find out where glen bank is ?  Your James must surely be wrongly named or a son. Previously I had searched for John Black and a daughter aged 8 or 9 in the Irish Census 1901. I think I found two possible families but something didn't click on either.. I would suggest you continue to study  the 1901 census looking for Mary first enter her age  then when they come up select out the age you think she was on March, see the name for there father and keep looking.  What I did establish were the Blacks that lived in Meadow street near Dock Quay in Belfast and the other very nearby in Upper meadow St are not your family in either 1901 or 1911. You should also look for Robert in case he also is listed in 1901. Good luck onwards JimG
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Offline gaffy

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #2 on: Friday 25 July 14 05:00 BST (UK) »

... The address is Meadow Street, Ligoniel.  I couldn't find this on google maps so i am assuming the street isn't there anymore ?


Meadow Street was off the Ligoniel Road in Ligoniel and was, for example,  in the Belfast street directory of 1901 (no sign of Blacks):

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/mcomplete1901.htm

Some time after 1901 it was renamed Legnavea Street, you will find it here in the 1907 street directory:

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/Lcomplete1907_1.htm

Long since redeveloped out of existence, today there is a Legnavea Place which you can find using google maps and which will give you a perspective on the vicinity.

Offline Jolene1987

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #3 on: Friday 25 July 14 08:45 BST (UK) »
Hi
Thank you for your research.  James Black is the right name and his father was Hugh Black and his mother was Jane McGarry but she died before the 1901 census.   James did have a brother called John which i have struggled to find any information on.  I have found out that James' wife Lucinda Hamilton was originally from Ligoneil (as per marriage certificate).
I got another birth certificate (1891) which gives "40 Meadow Street"  - I have checked the online street directories for 1890, 1892 & 1895 and searched under "Meadow" and "Black" but still no luck!
It's a struggle but I'll keep going.
Black, Dunlop, Pritchard, Todd, Kelso, Hamilton, McGarry (all Belfast based)

Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #4 on: Friday 25 July 14 18:30 BST (UK) »
I think your family tree reads like this
1.Hugh Black married  1 march 1864 Jane McGarry, they lived in XXXXXXX Jane died pre 1901 {at the wedding was a witness James McGarry. Who I think was her father . Source familysearch.org

Children
1.1 John birth:   1 September 1867 christening: 12, CRUMLIN, ANT, IRE
This christening means you have a church involved in Crumlin, but because another son john is born in or registered in Killead below, I would think the first john died. Source familysearch.org
1.2 John birth:   1 July 1878   British Killead, Antrim, Ireland Source familysearch.com
1.3 James m Lucinda Hamilton of  ligoneil was this about 1889 and lived in meadow st ligoneil for some years

James and Lucindasís Children
1.3.1 A Child born 1891 Meadow St, you mention but no name so far
1.3.2 Annie b 1892 about whom you are trying to find out more
1.3.3 Martha Black Jolenes g grandmother b 1894.?1895?

Other notes made
In the PRONI 1890 st directory Ligoneil is part of the Ballysillan heading and Robert Black of Glenbank is there each year, he has left by 1899.  I did not find Meadow St until 1899

Are you hunting, have hunted etc the 1901 census example like this exist which shows a a James and a Mary and a martha but still wrong with the grandfather not Hugh but a Robert Black from Co Armagh. And  ages wrong.
Black family living in 23 in Willow Street (Falls, Antrim) Do look this up if you haventdone so.

 I have spent some time on PRONIís revision books to Griffiths valuation. Its my first such venture, and am dizzy.  One can put on Glenbank and get several reference s to Ligoneill area website.  Meadow St ligoneil is in there somewhere as well as its later name Legnavea Street, supplied by gaffy.  , however I am sorry I give up

What are the details on your grandmothers marriage was she called lucy in 1889 To sum up

There are plenty of Blacks living Killead parish in 1862, so if this Hughís homestead area have fun see http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
Killead church records are page 237 and Crumlin church records page of 154 of http://www.proni.gov.uk/guide_to_church_records.pdf

 Good luck yourself from now on JimG
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Offline gaffy

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 26 July 14 10:44 BST (UK) »
The valuation revision books on the PRONI website make interesting reading, albeit I'm none the wiser about Meadow Street.  If you search for Meadow Street at the link below, the results will include 3 revision books in the townland of Legoniel: 1881 - 1889 and 1890 - 1897 (under the label 'Ewart Street / Meadow Street') and 1897 - 1906 (under the label 'Meadow Street').

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/dcal_proni_val12b/Search.aspx

In all 3 books, there are a few folk listed against the odd numbers in Meadow Street, the rest of the odd numbers are listed as vacant, as are virtually all of the even numbers. Not surprisingly for that area, the lessor is William Ewart & Son.

Very few of the names listed as living in Meadow Street (the Ligoniel one) in the 1901 census read across to the few names listed in the 1897 - 1906 revision book. I've found a couple in the more general area, but not Meadow Street. So I am stumped.

It does beg speculation though.  Was Meadow Street originally called Ewart Street (I can find no evidence of that street name) or maybe just known as that locally? Was most of it perhaps 'vacant' in the late 1800s due to dereliction (bar the occasional squatter) before being redeveloped as Legnavea Street in the early 1900s?

Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 26 July 14 13:54 BST (UK) »
Jolene, have you anything to do with "always4ever" on Belfast Forum  genealogy  board 2012 . Where she and others inc myself unearthed all about Hugh his two marriages! etc.  Yes it is you ! the 2nd wifes name makes all the difference in hunting after 1884 . You know so much and didn't give anything away on Rootschat. You knew Hugh in 1901 - lived @ 3 Parkers Street (age 50)
1911 - lived @ 5 Leroy Street (age 63) Iam peeved and won't answer any further of your own queries, pleased do your own work.
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Offline Leeannetrew

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 27 December 17 11:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jolene
My  great aunt Martha adopted my uncle Ernie and my mum Pauline Johnston Trew was adopted by aunt Louie Kelso.
My mum looked after Louie right up until her death aged 81 in Belfast 1970s
Our family moved to Australia in 1980
There were 3 children of Lucy Black Kelso
Robert deceased,James deceased and Roberta(90 years old alive)
Regards
Leeanne.

Offline Nora Mitchell

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Re: Meadow Street, Ligoniel
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 06 January 18 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Jolene, my grandmother was Annie Black, born 1893 and married William Pritchard abt 1921. They had 2 children, William and Vera who is my mother. Mum was born in 1923 and is still living. We emigrated to Australia from Belfast in 1961. Uncle Willie died of a heart attack in the 70's, having never married. Annie died in 1962 from cancer. Annie's mother was Lucy Hamilton and married James Black. They had 7 children: Hughie, Annie, Lucy (Louie), James, Minnie (Mary) Martha, and Ethel Eva. They lived at 82 or 62 Cambrai street Belfast at the time of the 1911 Census. Martha married Bob Dunlop and they lived in Wimbledon Street. They had 2 daughters, Elsie and Isobel. I used to write to her years ago, then to her granddaughter, Elsie's daughter, Lynda but lost contact years ago. I hope this information is useful.