Author Topic: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.  (Read 39170 times)

Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 06 August 14 13:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Roger,
              New day, new theory. I wonder if we can completely discard the David Richards family of Ffosybleiddiaid, past and present, and simplify our data.
 John (1760) and James Richards (1763) were born at Bryn Isaf, (Bryn Merllyd). Going backwards, we see the negotiations regarding Bryn Isaf dated 1757. Looking at the details we see that the 100 is repaid, after 7 years, by Thomas Richards. ( We haven't come across a Thomas in David Ffos's family. I thought that the Edward Richards mentioned was the one from the school but the 1727 will of David Richard, (Yeoman) of Ynys y Perfedd shows a wife named Magdalen and  sons named David and EDWARD.
  Having regard to the lack of useful results from the pursuit of David of Ffos and his family, (although they must have been involved with the Richard family of Ystradmeurig) I'm leaning in the direction of the forebears of John and James to be from the David Richard (Gent) line. Because there is an Edward involved in the negotiations for Bryn Isaf, ( and, I presume, Thomas was his son), this increases the probability of Thomas being John and James' father.
Your observation that the David Richards (Gent) that Married a Letitia in 1737 is not the same person as David Richards who later, (1757) became a "Gent", seems correct.
We see that the David Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod, son and heir of Thomas, Yeoman, and Magdalen Richards, the owner of Lledrod Mill and various properties in the area left to David in his will, would be a "gent" in his own right. None of the properties mentioned in the will can be linked to David of Ffos ... nor Strygosfawr, the residence of David "Gent". We now can concentrate on details for Edward, son of Thomas, brother of David of Strygosfawr.
 (Another observation is that David of Strygos married in 1737 ... Edward would have married around the same date and had a son, who in 1760, (DoB of John Richards), would have been in his early 20's.
 Have a good think about this post and check my dates etc. thinking outside the box may work this time. Regards, Peter


[quote author Despair.
Again, you have probably seen it, but amongst many references to David Richards of Lledrod at NLW there is one dated 1757,an indenture of 100-David Richards of Foesybleidded(sic) and Letitia his wife to Edward Richards of Spytty Ystrad Meyrick(sic) re a property called Bryn Merllyd and a note of 1764 acknowledging repayment of capital and interest by Thomas Richards.]


   
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

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Online despair

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 06 August 14 14:25 BST (UK) »
I have been trying to distinguish the various(?) David Richards,Gent referred to in the indentures in Crosswood 2(B) viz

1742 Lledrod -involved with Rees Parry re Hendre Rys(Rees?)
1753 Caron - refers to Tyddyn y Bryn Merllyd
1753-Lledrod
!754 LLandewi Brefi-  involved with Hendre Rees,has a son Morgan and grandson Thomas

From this last detail I have found the will of David Richards Llandewi Brefi(who looks like the same person as "Lledrod" because of the involvement with Hendre Rees?)
Crucially his will is dated 1756,Llandewi Brefi.His wife is Mary,with sons Morgan,Thomas and the youngest David(I hear you groaning).Morgan's will is available at NLW under Radnor(he also has a son Thomas).

I haven't been able yet to find approximate dates for the children to see,for instance,whether David Richards ref. Ffos 1757,might be the son of David and Mary(haven't found this marriage either).

Regards
Roger


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Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 06 August 14 15:15 BST (UK) »
Hi, (Insert Groan,
 Just spotted something of interest.

D.D. 1460. Indenture, dated 1 Aug. 1769, being a lease for a year (so that a grant by release might be made) from David Richards of Strygosfawr in the parish of Lledrod, CO. Cardigan, gent, (son and heir of Thomas Richards of the same place, gent., deceased by Magdalen his wife) to James Lloyd of Mabus, co. Cardigan, esq., of messuages and lands in the said parish of Lledrod, called Strygos otherwise Strygos- fawr, and Twyn y rhose, and late in the tenures of Magdalen Richards, David Richards, Richard David and Thomas Jones. Witnesses : Wm. Lewis; David Jones; Richard Phillips.

 This is obviously not David of Ffos ... the details fit the "New" David mentioned in my last post.

We need now to concentrate on Edward,the brother of this David Richards. I'm harvesting spuds at the moment but I'll have a look later. Immediate impact of the above entry shows that David Strygos was still alive and in business in 1769 so the Llandewi Brefi David Richards must be yet another one. Let's ignore him for now and concentrate on Edward, hoping that he only had 1 child, named Thomas!
 (I can't remember whether I told you that John (1760) had 10 children and his brother James (1763) had 9. John's son Michael, 1798 had 11, and James' son Edward had 10. I'm one of 13.)

                             Onwards and sideways. Peter
 
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

Offline Viking666

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 06 August 14 21:50 BST (UK) »
Hi again.
             Referring to your last post where you mention, " Caron - refers to Tyddyn y Bryn Merllyd".
 I was just doing a "last ditch" search at NLW for Thomas Richards when lo and behold ......

 A Bond dated 1781 drawn up by the Bishop of Bangor in respect of Elizabeth Richards, of Caron, Montgomery regarding the estate of her late husband, Thomas Richards of Llanerchymedd and Caron, Montgomery.
 You may remember that John Richards was the Vicar of Llanerchymedd and James his brother was a draper and maltster there. I've always wondered why they both ended up so far from home. The Rev. John would go where he was told but James seems to have moved there of his own accord.
 I can only think that their father, Thomas, moved there between James' birth in 1763 and his death in 1781.
 The inventory shown on Image 2 seems to contain a lot of horses, including 12 wild mountain horses. All of the effects are that of a farm that would need a family larger than the one recorded so there must be other children of Thomas. The Rev. John was the inheritor of the farm , probably when his mother died, date unknown.
 What a stroke of luck. As I said in my last post, knowing that it was a Thomas that repaid the money for Bryn Merllyd, that he was the prime suspect to be John and James' father. Here he is in Llanerchymedd and I may have added another 3 generations to my tree.

 Check my info and see what you think.
                   Regards from Peter.
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 07 August 14 08:31 BST (UK) »
I have found the bond you refer to,but I have some doubts as follows:-
The entry is titled,and the text contains,reference to Llanerchymedd,Carno,Montgomery

This is not Caron,Cardiganshire(which exists at Goginan,Cardiganshire - or perhaps it's a form of Tregaron)  which was the original reference in 1753 for David Richards.

I did doubt that Llanerchymedd,Carno(note,not Caron) existed,but the following suggests it did

http://www.connectedhistories.org/Search_results.aspx?pc=Carno&st=400&sr=pp

What all this quite means I am unsure-an original misinterpretation of which Llanerchymedd is relevant(?).

I note also,that as well as the widow Elizabeth,the bond refers to the Rev John Thomas,which could be the patronymic form for John,son of Thomas(Richards)-or it could be a complete coincidence-there is a signature at the bottom which might be John Tilsley Thomas.

Regards
Roger

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 07 August 14 10:23 BST (UK) »
Having seen the 1833 will of John Richards at Llanerch-y-medd ,Anglesey, I think the bond you found is not relevant.I have seen the bond in the wills section,I can't see where it says   "...Caron AND Llanerchymedd..."

Regards
Roger

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 07 August 14 11:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Roger,
  Yes, there is a Carno in Montgomery. A quick search hasn't produced a Llanerchymedd, place or farm in the vicinity. Do you know whether Montgomery lay within the boundaries of the Bishop of Bangor at that time. What a coincidence.
                          Back to bed for me!   Peter
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 07 August 14 13:58 BST (UK) »
In the last link I provided above,the third article contains a sequence of properties ".....Ffosddu,Llannerchymedd,Cefn Brith,.................in the parish of Carno...."

Ffosddu(SY17 5JX) and Cefn Brith(SY17 5JY) still exist.At SY17 5JY currently there is a Llanerch and a Llanerch Isaf,which,presumably,therefore,were previously Llanerchymedd.

Regards
Roger

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Re: David Richard/Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod.
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 07 August 14 14:58 BST (UK) »



At last I've managed to download half a copy of the Crosswood document that you keep referring to but, in text, it ends in 1722. A quick look at what I have shows the following entry.

II.156
1694, Nov. 9
INDENTURE, being a mortgage for 40 from David Richard of p. Lledrod, co. Card., yeoman, and Goley his wife, to Charles Pryse of Llwyn-y-kedni in the same p., gent., of the moiety or half of three parts of an ancient tmt called Tythyn-bryn-merllyd in gr. Mevenith, co. Card., being formerly parcel of the possessions of the dissolved abbey of Strata Florida.

 This is the earliest connection we have between David Richard, Yeoman, and Bryn Merllyd. There are a few almost identical entries for this transaction. (They all show David's wife as Goley). This may be taken as Goleu ... Light in Welsh, it's the only name that I've come across before that fits.
The name Caron/ Carron is common at this time and seems to indicate Tregaron. Note how the Landowners squeeze eggs, hens, cash and meat out of their tenants as part of the tenancy!
 I'm running out of search options ... there may be no other avenues to explore but I still go with the parents of John and James originating with David Richard, Yeoman, (above), through his son Edward, and his as yet unknown son, possibly the Thomas that paid for Bryn Issaf/Bryn Merllyd.
I think that we may have broken all records with this topic ... it added 5 years to my life, and reading those wills ruined my eyesight but we almost made it in the end.
                        Regards from Peter.
Richards in Anglesey. Liverpool, Cardiganshire.
Richards in Patagonia and Canada. Owens and Williams in Holyhead. Laird family, Birkenhead. Richards-Bridges family, Epsom.