Author Topic: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley  (Read 14076 times)

Offline Cliffelinks65

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #18 on: Monday 18 August 14 22:18 BST (UK) »
Is this a "lightbulb"moment.....?

Although I am no nearer establishing for certain the parentage of James.....although I think I am getting there....maybe, just maybe, there is something in your post that makes a new connection....here goes.....
"
Firstly, looking at the records for 1841 and 1851, I don't think Grace is Grace at all - in fact this is Isaac, and the index has a transcription error, something which is not uncommon on these forms when you look at the actual writing, rather than the printed version. Also, the forms seem way off in terms of the ages recorded, also common, particularly in 1841 apparently....this one really is difficult to work out, we have 55,20,20,20,15 and 5 on one, then 70, 30, 25 and 15 on the next.

But......(here is the "lightbulb"!)..... in my own tree, James and Mary had a daughter Elizabeth. I had no further info about her....but I have just found her marriage in 1833 to an Edward Berry, and on these census forms we find Edmund Butterfield and Edmund Berry (same child) as a grandson of James!  By the time of the census both Elizabeth and Edward are missing....early deaths?? This makes the link for me, so many thanks to sallyyorks for making me think!

I haven't decided who Ann is yet, or Adam, except that I have a death for Adam Butterfield in 1851, presumably after the census was conducted.

So now I am "on the case", and am very grateful for the push to make this connection.

Thank you....more to follow, I hope!

Cliffelinks65

 

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Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #19 on: Monday 18 August 14 23:03 BST (UK) »
Oooh reet Grand ! , as we say  :D ! . Well spotted with Isaac / Grace and looking good with the added Berry connection.
The ages all rounded off together at 20 for that age group I have seen before . It seems to happen that way in other 1841 census I've seen. Ages can be out a little on other census too sometimes

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Offline Cliffelinks65

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 20 August 14 19:30 BST (UK) »
The plot thickens....

James' details on the 1841 census for Sutton are proving very elusive...I can find a Thomas in my tree b 1816, he might fit quite well, but as for Ann and Isaac, no joy yet. Can't find any birth/baptism records to make them the last two children of my James and Mary, or even Isaac the husband of Ann. The Thomas I have already I have showing as married in 1844 to someone else. As for Adam/Addam, also no birth baptism record, just a death in 1851.  I841 really is difficult sometimes, isn't it...!

However, better news elsewhere....Michael, illegitimate brother of Elijah, married Susan Judson/Judgson in 1815, and had the following children - William, Mary, Susanna, Martha, Nancy and maybe an Isaac. In between Nancy and the possible Isaac is the curiously named Jepy. More of him lower down in this message.

In 1833 Michael seems to have married Martha Hodgson/Hodgkin, moving to the Bury/Blackburn area of Lancashire - more children follow - Solomon, Charlotte, Cornelius, Michael, another Susanna and Jane E.

There is a really interesting entry of baptisms under Lancashire/Blackburn, Ebenezer Chapel for Jun 2 1835 which shows the following -

Jepy (?), b 1827 to Michael Butterfield and Susan Judson
Charlotte b 1835 to Michael Butterfield and Martha Hodgkin.

These 2 entries are on the same page next to each other, and the first shows Michael as living in Oldfield (which is the right area for his birth and first marriage). I haven't deciphered the abode for the second entry yet.

Still on the case.....

Cliffelinks65
 

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 20 August 14 20:24 BST (UK) »
I had a look for William s/o Mary b 1789 to see if he could shed any light on brother James .

I think this is him , (wife Alice nee Pighills/Pickles)
(Listed males in household first)

1841 Census
North St , Keighley
William Butterfield 1791 - Tinner
Pickles -(male) 1821
Alice 1796 (wife of William)
Martha 1826
Mary 1829
Lydia 1831

Pickles Butterfield was bapt 1816 of William , Tinner, ,  and Alice. Abode Clubhouses

1851 Census
Temple St , Keighley
William b 1789 Keighley- tin plate worker
Alice - 1793 Keighley - wife
Lydia 1831 Keighley - dressmaker

1861
Temple Row
Keighley
William 1789 - tinner and brazier
Lydia Redman - 1831 - dau
Frederick Redman age 1 grandson


Also looked at burials . Do you have James burial ?
I think this is burial of James son of Mary
(I was in a rush and scribbled down numbers but might have got one of numbers bit wrong)

Burial at Christchurch , Oakworth (this ,if i remember right, is where Elijah his cousin is buried)
1865
James Butterfield of Lane Ends
Age 70 ? (Need to look at this again)

Unless you already have a burial , this fits with your James (did he come home ?) because we know your James is on the census and alive in at least 1851. But a problem is on the bmd index there are two James Butterfield deaths for that year in Keighley dist.  If you do have a burial then this discounts James s/o Mary as being your James .

Something else I need to look into is a detail about one of Elijah's grandsons Joseph (son of my William 1816, my line)  . In one of my  old notes I have him giving "Kildwick" as his place of birth on a census .  There is a further connection going toward that area at Addingham .  William (Elijah's son) and family are on census there in 1861 probably working at New Mill. Also wonder if this is connected in some way with the Mary Removal Order 1767

Anyway, i am enjoying getting all the old Butterfield notes out and reading them
Will look into it again at online records  tomorrow  :)





Offline Cliffelinks65

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 21 August 14 17:54 BST (UK) »
I've been looking at William's details this afternoon - I agree with you about his children (I also have a John before Pickles, and a Mary after him, but all the others in place like you). So far so good...but alas I have William as the child of Jacob B and Alice Moorehouse, and born in 1779 which doesn't fit!  The ages on the later census forms suggest I'm wrong and you may be right...but that's ok....

So now I'm revisiting the William I have, born in 1779....and as always, a few to choose from!

So James and William remain difficult...I have no death for James (well not this one anyway, so that's another to seek...)

Pickles as a Christian name is interesting - corruption of Pighills, or Pighells, which I have also seen as surnames in this area, I think.

And while all this is going on, I have stumbled on 2 possible and conflicting Davids as well.

Happy days....!

Cliffelinks65




Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 21 August 14 20:04 BST (UK) »
Now have correct details for James burial I mentioned earlier (but had scribbled it)

Christchurch , Oakworth
24th April 1865
James Butterfield of Lane Ends
Age 76
(est year of birth 1789)
I think this is probaly Marys son James bapt 1785 (age a bit out but that is not unusual for a death as people sometimes didnt know the exact age of deceased). The other James same year was from Bingley b 1816

Some of Elijah and Anns family are missing bapts , might be register is to hard to decipher/ damaged or they just didn't bother. I have never been able to find William 1816 bapt (though he names Elijah his dad at his wedding)
Also looked into a Betty Butterfield puzzle , turned out to be another coincidence

1841 Census - Lane Ends - Oakworth
Elijah Butterfied 1786- carrier
Ann (wife) 1786
John 1821 (names his son Elijah) - wool comber
Mary 1823 (think dies young) - factory
Betty 1826
John 1836

Looked into Betty , she marries John Lund in 1846 , at her marriage there is no father named , just a line drawn through . It turns out that Betty was born Cowling . This is very close to where your James is on the census . Your James is Bent Lane area I think .

Another coincidence between the Elijah family and the James family on census (Bent Lane/Kildwick , near the Colne rd area) is that Elijahs son William (b 1816) and family are in the Kildwick area in 1838 . Because Joseph his son (b 1838) repeatedly gives "Kildwick" as place of birth on census.

I wonder who Betty's mother is and if she was from Kildwick / Cowling area . Its the areas that I think are the clues
Still on the case  :)

Offline Cliffelinks65

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 21 August 14 20:40 BST (UK) »
Just looked at the first part of your reply - I also only have some of the baptism dates for Elijah and Ann's childen, as follows:-

Joseph bapt 31 Aug 1809 (6 weeks old)
Christiana bapt 24 Jun 1811 born 25 Dec 1810
Jonathan bapt 30 June 1813

Other children listed as :-
William b 1816
John b 1821
Mary b 1823
Betty b 1826
Elizabeth b 1827
and another John b 1836

Could Betty and Elizabeth be the same person, I thought Betty was a version of the name Elizabeth?

I have marriages and descendants for Jonathan and William sketched out, but nothing as yet for any of the others.

Back to the rest of your message....

Cliffelinks65

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Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 21 August 14 21:36 BST (UK) »
The thing is though , on the 1841 census no relationships are stated. The Betty on the 1841 census living with Elijah family I don't think is Elijah and Anns daughter . In 1848 she marries John Lund but she seems to be illegitimate. I was expecting it to state "father Elijah" but it doesn't , there is a blank space and a line drawn through where the fathers name should be.
I am starting to doubt the John is the one who names son Elijah. The Thomas (edit sorry should read John) I don't think is Elijah's  son
A problem I have just noticed is that there seems to be two John and Alices .

There is the John with Elijah in 1841( who possibly  marries an Alice Newell) Then , also Oakworth in 1841 is
Then
1841
Living near Oakworth (notes)
John Butterfield 1811 - ag lab
Alice 1816
Joseph 1840

So the John with Elijah isn't that one

Then

Keighley 1851 census
All b Keighley
John Butterfield 1806 - ag lab
Alice 1813 (nee Womersley ?)
Joseph 1840
William 1844
Paylina 1847
James 1848
Joseph Womersley 1781 - wool - lodger

This is part of a mass baptism ( of a lot of people ) on Christmas day
Christchurch , Oakworth
Christmas day - 1851
Elijah Butterfield
born 1848
Son of
John and Alice

So this is this a different John and Alice to the 1806 John and 1813 Alice . Because they don't have an Elijah with them in 1851 . Unless "Paylina" is Elijah . A further complication is that William is down as female too



Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Butterfields of Haworth, Stanbury, Keighley and Bingley
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 21 August 14 21:46 BST (UK) »
...yes sorry , I see what you mean about Betty / Elizabeth