Author Topic: When did patrynomics die out in Carmarthenshire?  (Read 3096 times)

Offline Griffl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
When did patrynomics die out in Carmarthenshire?
« on: Sunday 03 August 14 23:24 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Seeing a most of my roots are from Carmarthenshire and of course if I ever get before 1800 haha it might be useful to know a little more about patrynomics in the county if anyone knows :)

I wonder if anyone knows roughly when patrynomics died out in Carmarthenshire?
For a poor family, as I know wealth affected the date

I also suppose that location might make a difference from a town to an isolated rural village..

Hoping theres and expert or anyone withs a better idea than me here to answer :)
Diolch

Online Cas (stallc)

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,299
    • View Profile
Re: When did patrynomics die out in Carmarthenshire?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 August 14 00:17 BST (UK) »
Found this link interesting read from...WELSH PATRONYMICS

http://welshleigh.org/genealogy/welshnames.html

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Offline Pejic

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: When did patrynomics die out in Carmarthenshire?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 August 14 07:54 BST (UK) »
Isaac Welsh/Welch my 3 x great grandfather, a carpenter in St Issels (which I haven't been able to find in my atlas this morning, but which I vaguely recall as wandering between Pembs and Carms), called his children "Isaacs" until 1813 when he started calling them Welsh, which his eldest son (at least) also used later in life.
Richard Wernham (Berkshire 18th century),
William Hissey (1805 to 1813, Hampstead Norris),
Kapirin (Siberia 19th Century),
Kitching 1850,
Mary Howse born 1806 ish,
Chris Truelove marr. John Pocock 2-7-1696, Kintbury, Berks

Offline Griffl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: When did patrynomics die out in Carmarthenshire?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 05 August 14 11:24 BST (UK) »
Thanks pejic as I understand that was quite late for Carmarthenshire and I read somewhere online that 1813 is the date when welsh patronymics are said to have been stopped in use..

Thanks for the link cas was helpful

As all of my carmarthenshire roots have biblical first names such as David etc 
I wonder when the transition between traditional welsh names to christian names would have taken place as surely with a surname such as Griffiths there must have been a time when a father held the name of Griffith/Gruffudd etc

I have noticed when reading the north wales boards in here that many families kept traditional welsh names for much longer...

Is it just my ancestors who used biblical names or did yours too abandon the traditional names in favour of biblical names?


Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,225
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: When did patrynomics die out in Carmarthenshire?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 06 August 14 15:33 BST (UK) »
the use of patronymics didn't stop in 1813, but that is the date before which IGI baptism records show names in the patronymic form whether or not it was still in use in the area, thus making finding baptisms on FamilySearch a challenge to say the least.

I looked up a family for someone on the boards where one part of the family stopped using patronymics in the mid 1830s. You could see the change in the baptism records. However, this family's cousins changed at a different time. From memory, this was Llandilofawr area. I can't find the post at the mo. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/themes/society/family_03_welshnaming.shtml

http://www.users.uswest.net/~butchmatt/WelshNames&Surnames.htm

loads of articles on names here
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/pceltic.shtml

 ;)

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb