Help with Douglas Shears families

[dugl]

Can anyone help with what connection, if any, there is between the birth record for Mary Douglas – born 6/5/1826 – lawful daughter of William Douglas painter residing at Huyton near Prescot and Ann Douglas formerly Shears. Baptised 28/5/1826 at Bold Street Universalist Church Liverpool. (Ancestry Non-conformist and Non-parochial Registers 1567 – 1970) and the Duglass family in the 1841 census living, at what looks like, Dance Street (the address given on the birth record of the three youngest children)
William      41
Ann         39
Mary         14
Ann         12
Samuel(l)      11      (second given name Taylor)
James           7
Barbara        4
John           1

The wife of  William  in the census, I believe to be, Ann Taylor for which there is a Scottish marriage record to William Douglas painter dated 11/11/1822.

The odd spelling of Douglas is almost certainly a transcription error as is the birthplace of Ireland as the names and ages of all the family fit the marriage or birth records. This is supported by the somewhat depleted 1851 census record.

Daughter Ann was also baptised at Huyton, though the church is not recorded.

The mother Ann’s death can traced to 1865 in Melbourne, Australia. The certificate confirming the family names, including Mary aged 40, however, I haven't been able to find a marriage or migration record.

[FionaO]

Hi Dugl and welcome to Rootschat.

Not sure I’m clear about the help you want but I’ll give it a shot.

If I’m reading your message correctly you’ve got a marriage between Ann TAYLOR and William DOUGLAS in Scotland 11 Nov 1822. 
A  baptism Mary DOUGLAS, DOB 6 May 1826, baptism 28 May 1826, dau of William DOUGLAS and Ann DOUGLAS formerly SHEARS in Huyton – non conformist church.
Then baptisms of the other children of William DOUGLAS and Ann (no other name) St Peter, Liverpool which is RC.
And finally, the names,etc all tie in with the 1841 and 1851 censuses for the Dauglus/Dugluss family in Liverpool.

So, is this a case of William and two Anns?  I’ve not been able to see the actual marriage/baptism documents so can’t tell if the one mention of SHEARS is just clouding the issue.  Ditto the TAYLOR.   People did not live long in those years and so it is possible that Ann TAYLOR died after 1822 and William married Ann SHEARS before the birth of Mary in 1826. The frequency of births after Mary would suggest either a missing baby or a short marriage.  Of course there is always the possibility that Ann was born SHEARS, married a TAYLOR, was widowed and then married William. (I have both scenarios in my family). 

Going from a Scottish non-conformist to RC is entirely reasonable as in 1829 the Catholic Emancipation Act removed penalties against Catholics, hence the switch to RC baptisms after 1830.  Churches were sometimes simply be known as Huyton Parish Church without a specific name, especially if the only one in a parish.  The spelling of names was mainly down to the enumerator and most people couldn’t read to say if their name was spelt correctly or not (and then transcription errors creep in).

You mention a death for Ann in 1865 Melbourne and there is some connection to Mary on it.  I’m not familiar with Oz certs so please explain how Mary is mentioned as that may help us.  Also, does it mention Ann’s maiden name?  Did they go to Oz for the gold rush in 1851?

In summary, I’m not sure I’ve helped but if you can give us more info from Ann’s death doc it may give us something to go on.

Fionaohitsasmallworld

[dugl]

Hi Fiona,
With almost a week having passed since posting my query on RootsChat, and a surprising number of people viewing it, but there being no responses, I was beginning to think that I wasn't going to get any. So when notification of your response came in I was very excited.
You have covered my query very accurately. I am convinced that the William Douglas of married Ann Taylor and  that Ann lived until 1865. The fly in the ointment is Ann Shears and the birth record for Mary. I can't find another birth record for a Mary Douglas nor have I found a death record. Neither can I find a birth, marriage or death record for Ann (Shears) Douglas.
A reminder that, if my assumptions are correct, Mary's younger sister Ann was also born at Huyton.
The birth record I have come up with for Ann Taylor is 11/7/1801. Place  for both birth and baptism is given as Middle or New Parish Greenock Renfrew Scotland, which is close to Ann & Samuel's marriage place - Old or West Greenock. Adding a little weight to this assumption Ann's father is Samuel Taylor as Samuel Taylor Douglas comes up a few times in subsequent generations.
Attached is a copy of Ann Douglas' death certificate. As you can see it is quite informative, giving her parent's married  names and date of migration about 1865. My direct ancestor Samuel Taylor Douglas was married in Melbourne 25/11/1854. I haven't found a migration record for them but assume it was not long before the marriage. It is not clear whether gold was the attraction.
Thank very much for the time you have already put in. I look forward to to any further light you may shed on the subject
Cheers
Robin

[heatherjulie]

Hi
The Parish Church Huyton, May 1st 1828 Ann daughter of William and Ann Douglas of Huyton Occupation Painter. Baptised by William Davenport

Heather

[FionaO]

Hi Robin,

I think your query may be a little broad hence the lack of replies but I’m loving that death cert – so much info and so helpful!!  How I'd love to have some certs like that.

I was getting to think the SHEARS could be discounted as the only info out of place, but experience has taught me that folks can be a little selective with info so never say never. 

Well I now have a possibility where both TAYLOR and SHEARS could work. 
If you stick with Greenock, Refren/shire in Scotland and search (LDS) for Ann TAYLOR 1795-1810 with father Samuel TAYLOR, up pops two records,
Ann TAYLOR f: Samuel TAYLOR m: Barbara SELLARS bap: 23 July 1808 b: 10 July 1808
Anne TAYLOR f: Samuel TAYLOR m: Margaret SILLARS b: 11 July 1801 *
(SELLARS/SELLERS/SILLARS a bit interchangeable)
Then searching for SHEARS, same place and dates:
Mary SHEARS f: John SHEARS, m: Barbara SELLARS bap: 21 July 1803
All are listed in West or Old Parish Greenock, and I’m not suggesting they are the same Barbara SELLARS, as she’s goes onto have more children with John SHEARS, but it may perhaps show a family connection and that Ann slipped up in 1826 and said SHEARS when she meant TAYLOR (perhaps Grandmothers maiden name and not her mothers?). 

* I agree this is the most likely birth for Ann and so if this was mine I’d have a good look at the Scotland info and see if you can prove the connection there.

I’m not sure if you’re in the UK or Oz, but I’ve tried searching for immigration records and haven’t had any luck (either wrong birth or arrival, even when being a little vague) but wonder if there is more info from the Oz side of things?

Again, not sure I’ve actually helped but it’s been fun and here’s a website you may not have tried but you can search LDS using the batch numbers specifically for Greenock.
http://www.archersoftware.co.uk/igi/fs-rfw.htm

Good luck on your quest and let us know how you get on.

Fionaohcanifindanyozrellies

[dugl]

Hi Fiona,
Who needs loads of replies when they have you expending your time researching their problems and sharing your knowledge.
Death certificate certainly is good. If certificates in 1820/30's were anywhere near as informative my problem would probably have been resolved long ago.
I like your suggestion of grandmother's name being used in lieu of the mothers, (in my wife's family I have a death certificate which lists the mother-in-law rather than the mother) but so far searches have been inconclusive. I'll keep trying and will certainly let you know if I have any success.
I'd not seen the archersoftware website, but it looks useful.
Like you I've not been able to find migration records on the web. I am in Oz and we have a local immigration museum, which may be of help.
I don't have your genealogical experience but should you have a query that might be explored from Melbourne Australia, I would be pleased to attempt to help.
Thank you very much, once again, for your interest.
Robin

[jennych]

Hi  I know this is a reply to an old post, but just wondering if you had any luck researching  for Ann (Shears?) who married William Douglas. I think the first child listed, Mary Douglas 1826, Huyton Lancashire, is the relative I am connected to, however not sure if her mother was Ann Shears, as listed on her birth document, or Ann Tayor, who is listed as the mother of the subsequent children. Any help appreciated.

[dugl]

Hi Jennych,
I haven't been able to verify the Ann Shears connection. Unable to find a birth certificate for Mary although there are various references to her in census records and death certificates. Nor have I been able to find a marriage or death record. On Ann Taylor/Douglas's death certificate she appears to be alive in 1865.
Would be happy to share information with you. We reside in Victoria Australia.
Robin

[Gibel]

Wjust to say that the St Peter's church were some of the children were baptised was Church of England. There was a St Peter RC but the baptisms are at the C of E church.

I've been looking at the GRO index which now gives maiden names to see if I could find John but unfortunately no success. His baptism record states his name as John Wright Taylor. There is a marriage for him in Liverpool in 1860.

The last child Margaret is registered as Margaret Burnett Taylor Douglas mother's maiden name Taylor