Author Topic: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry  (Read 4361 times)

Online John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 27 May 18 20:51 BST (UK) »
I don't have anything on those potential mothers for Ellen. On the Duggan's of Knocknaseed I have:

Memorial: 171249 17th June 1768 Richard Meredith of the Mount Meredith
“James Mahony of Batterfield” more lands of Inchy McManus otherwise Laharan and others for lives of “Dens Duggan eldest son of Henry Duggan of Knocknaseed in said County Gent aged about twenty years and of John Mahony third son of John Mahony of Islandahilly in the County of Corke Gent aged about fourteen years”– https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-M2WJ?i=182&cat=185720

Kerry, Oaths of Allegiance 1775
7th March 1776
Daniel Duggan, Knocknaseed. Gent.

Henry Duggan was married to one of the daughters of Denis Mahony of Mount Collins, Co. Limerick. Whereas a Daniel Duggan of Knocknaseed married Ellen Mahony daughter of Cornelius Mahony of Kilmorna - she was born around 1710.

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Online John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #28 on: Monday 28 May 18 20:47 BST (UK) »
More random thoughts:
- James and his sister Mary are very different ages. When James went to Trinity in 1765 he would have been about 18, his niece Mary Delany got married in 1769.
- You posted that "Mrs Delaney was also apparently responsible for building Grenagh House west of Killarney in 1792". I think is the land Hugh Falvey left to his son Daniel in 1715. Daniel Falvey of Grenagh is a witness to a 1729 deed that is effectively Randall McCarthy More's will - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSHW-C96D-F?i=316&cat=185720. In 1750 John Mahony of Dunloe wrote "There are a great many Candidates putting up for Grenagh. Nobody knows here yet who'll have it." Maybe the Lawlors?

From the King's Inn Admission Papers - http://www.irishmanuscripts.ie/digital/Kings%20Inns%20Admission%20Papers%201607-1867/
LAWLOR, DANIEL, 6th s, Of Martin, Killarney, co, Kerry, and Mary Anne McCarthy;
over 16; ed. Maynooth; afftr mother. E 1814.
LAWLOR, JAMES. only s. of James, Killarney, co. Kerry, Dr. of Physic. M.T. H 1770. H
1773.
LAWLOR, JOHN SHEE, only s. Of John, corn merchant, decd., and Honora b 10
May 1798. E 1828. L.I., H 1828. T 18.30.
SHINE, MARTIN, 2nd s. Of Denis, Castlelough, Coy Kerry, decd. and Ellen Lawlor; over
16; ed. Oscott, Staffordshire; afft. John Shea Lawlor. 12 Holles Street. E 1832.

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Offline Gilby

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #29 on: Monday 28 May 18 22:22 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the Kind’s Inn admissions etc.

Yes I’ll have to check out Grenagh.  This is where I got the reference to it being built by Mrs Delany:

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=1670

Are you descended from those Falveys?

I think siblings James and Mary were a similar age – I’m not sure which marriage in 1769 you’re referring to.  Mary’s daughter Mary Ann married Peter Trant on the 19th July 1783 in Stranraer of all places (possible elopement?).

I started looking for a deed telling me when the Lawlors came into possession of Castlelough – I found one which showed Dr James was already “of Castlelough” in 1761 so I need to go earlier – in the meantime I found this:

Number 160843
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-S393-D?i=681&cat=185720
Film #007905850 – Image 682/693
Memorial of lease dated 19th Jun 1766 between Arthur Crosbie of Dublin Esq and James Lawlor of Trinity College Dublin, Gent.  The said Arthur Crosbie in consideration of rents paid, let unto the said James Lawlor the lands of Craigfrehane, Gortnacownigg and Farta then in the possession of James Lawlor Doctor of physick, for the lives of him the said James Lawlor, only son of the said Dr James Lawlor, Honora Delany daughter of Patrick Delany of Glengariff in the Co of Cork, and Darby Delany son of said Patrick Delany or the survivors of them.  Witnesses Robert Harrison of Dublin and James Flood clerk to said Robert Harrison.


Edit: I see the next lease refers to Castlelough, but that'll have to wait till tomorrow night.

Online John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #30 on: Monday 28 May 18 22:54 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure who is related to those Falveys though I suspect they may be descended from Hugh Falvey whose land at Faha was seized under Cromwell's Act of Settlement in 1652. He got it back under Charles II.

As for Mary I may be guilty of conflation I thought she was the Mary Lawlor from:

"Betham Genealogical Abstracts:
Pat. Delany of Glennygarriff in Co Cork Gent.  31 Oct 1767 .  2 March 1768.
Wife Mary Lawlor".

The lease below has Honora and Derby her eldest daughter and son.

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 31 May 18 15:19 BST (UK) »
I think I'm on the same page as you now. From the Delany perspective I think the family looks like:
1.   Derby d 1756
1.1.   Patrick d 1768 Mary Ann Lawlor d 1816
1.1.1.   Darby
1.1.2.   James
1.1.3.   Honora under 18 in 1767
1.1.4.   Mary under 18 in 1767, md in 1783 Peter Trant d 1832 son of Thomas Trant of Castleisland (“The Trant Family”)
1.1.5.   Elizabeth
1.2.   Jerry d 1774
1.3.   Mary md in 1769 Andrew Mahony son of James Mahony of Cloghane and Catherine Conway
1.3.1.   Elizabeth Mahony md in 1810 Patrick Moriarty (ST McCarthy, seems too late?)
1.4.   Another brother?
1.4.1.   Matthew d bef 1841
1.4.1.1.   Margaret md in 1841 Matthew Browne

Looking at https://www.johngrenham.com/surnamescode/rc_fmp_map_full.php?surname=Delany I wouldn't be surprised if Derby was the first Delany in the area.

Offline Gilby

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 31 May 18 22:09 BST (UK) »
Yes, that is what I am thinking for the Delanys, but I’m not sure I’ve found proof that Jerry and Mary were definitely siblings of Patrick…?

I wonder who this Darby Mahony was:

Number 150342/229/268
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-89Q5-B?i=467&cat=185720
Film #008088417 – Image 468/660
Memorial of lease dated 9th and 10th March 1764 between Lancelot Crosbie of Tubrea [Tralee?] Co Kerry, and James Lawlor the younger, of Dublin.  Crosbie did grant to Lawlor the lands of Kilgalbin, Ballyknock and Ballygarran in the Barony of Clanmorris, Co Kerry, for three lives.  Witnessed by Darby Mahony of Castlelough, Co Kerry and Alexander Smithwick, Dublin, clerk to Robert Harrison.

Number 169129/263/303
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMQ-K7WM-9?i=506&cat=185720
Film #007763690 – Image 507/696
Memorial of lease dated 25th day of Jan 1768 between Lancelot Crosbie of Tubred, Co Kerry and Arthur Crosbie of Dublin, on the one part, and John Mahony of Dontoe [?], Co Kerry, Gent, of the other.  Crosbies did let to Mahony the graisings of Glencullane, Breanly and Sarago, for 31 years.  Witnessed by James Lawlor Esq and Darby Mahony both of Castlelough.

Offline Gilby

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 31 May 18 22:17 BST (UK) »
I had been hoping to find something to prove what the exact relationship was between Mary Delany née Lawlor and her Lawlor kinsfolk so I can properly add Daniel O'Connell to my tree.  I’m about 70% sure Dr. James Lawlor was brother to Martin Lawlor the apothecary. 

I’ve finished my search of Crosbie-Lawlor deeds.  I didn’t find when Dr. James Lawlor first moved to Castlelough – I’d guess in the 1750s.  I did find a few deeds which appear to show his son gaining more control over the property in the 1770s-80s, I think.

The legal stuff confuses me.  Who is the mortgagor and who is the mortgagee…?

Number 216544/322/347
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-36WR?i=194&cat=185720
Film #008093388 – Image 195/383
Memorial of deed dated 29th Jun 1778 between William Arthur Crosbie of Dublin and James Lawlor of Dublin.  Whereby said William Arthur Crosbie conveyed to James Lawlor in his actual possession being by virtue of the deed of lease for a year therein recited all that and those the twns and lands of Castlelough, Darkagalaner, Carrifasse [?], ?hane, Gortacounig, Farta, Droumdruslig and Gortderrykissane in the Barony of Magunihy, and the town and lands of Commego in the Barony of Iveragh, all in Co Kerry, subject to redemption on the repayment of £950 with the lawful interest thereof which said deed and this memorial are witnessed by Thomas Franks of Dublin and John Hewson of Dublin.

And then a couple of years later James leases Castlelough to his sister Mary.

Number 224886/330/551
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMQ-K77Z-7?i=674&cat=185720
Film #008093696 – Image296/349
Memorial of deed dated 23rd May 1780 between William Arthur Crosbie of Dublin, on the one part, James Lawlor of Dublin, on the second part, and Mary Delany of Castlelough, widow, of the third.  Whereby the said James Lawlor did demise and the said William Arthur Crosbie did confirm unto the said Mary Delany all that and those lands of Castlelough containing 20 Irish acres plantation measure, also part of Carrigfrehane commonly called the Orchard containing 3 acres 3 roods, with the consent of William Arthur Crosbie to whom the equity of redemption belongs, for 999 years at the yearly rent of 1 shilling by the yea……… years of the said term as he should live provided her eldest so………[cut off]….. or the said James Lalor shall be also alive and the rent of twenty pounds…………… [bottom corner of page missing]

And I think this is basically James Lawlor getting the freehold at last…?

Number 229609/339/488
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-9Q6T-X?i=262&cat=185720
Film #007905697 – Image 263/349
Memorial of deed dated 12 Oct 1781 between Wm Arthur Crosbie of Dublin and James Lawlor of Dublin.  Crosbie did release unto James Lawlor the towns and lands of Castlelough, Parkagalane, Carrigafrehane, Gortacourig, Farta, Droumdreislig and Gortderrykissane, Barony of Magunihy, and lands of Cummings, Barony of Iveragh, all in Co Kerry, now in the possession of said James Lawlor and his undertenants, as also the proviso or condition of redemption mentioned in the deed of release therein recited to hold to the said James Lawlor his heirs etc for ever subject to the proviso or condition of redemption therein contained.  Witnessed by Thomas Franks and Valentine Cornwall.

In the few years after this up to 1785 James Lawlor seems to buy a lot more land from Crosbie – £2000-4000 involved.  One of the leases refers to Wm Arthur Crosbie’s great uncle if anyone’s interested.

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 31 May 18 23:21 BST (UK) »
One thing to remember in all of this is that the Delanys and the Lawlors are Catholics. Technically they are not allowed freehold ownership of any property and leases of properties should not exceed 31 years. That all changed in 1782 when longer leases were allowed.

Before 1782 Catholic families leased property via Protestants. There was a hosier in Dublin called Samuel Windis who owned a lot of property in Kerry on behalf of Catholics so it's reasonable to believe that the Delanys and the Lawlors had "de facto" ownership of some land through their own agents.

The 1799 list of Kerry freeholders only has "H Lawler MD" of Killarney but no other Lawler/Lawlors. This is probably the Hugh Lawlor who died around 1824 and his properties passed to John Shea Lawlor, Anastatia Shea, Mary Margaret Lawlor, and Hugh Lawlor of Cork (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-W39Y-M?i=28&cat=185720, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-W39F-L?i=190&cat=185720, lost the other link for now).

Given the use of the word "kinsman" in Mary Ann (Lawlor) Delany's will I don't think Martin's children are her nieces and nephews. Hugh's grandchildren might be considered as kinsmen. A while back I read that John Shea died when John Shea Lawlor was very young and that his mother moved back to Killarney so it is likely that he grew up in Hugh Lawlor's household.

As for the mortgagor/ mortagee, the Irish land-owners had a habit of borrowing against their land. In exchange for a sum of money the rents due from the land would be paid to the mortgagor. At any time the land-owner could reclaim the land by paying off the mortgage.

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #35 on: Friday 01 June 18 09:46 BST (UK) »
Returning to your posts on this page:
  • Lancelot Crosbie was from Tubrid
  • John Mahony of Dunloe leased lots of land west of Lough Leane, he died in 1780. He was the man who wrote in 1750 "There are a great many Candidates putting up for Grenagh. Nobody knows here yet who'll have it.". Also that year he wrote "Sister Lawlor got a young son last Wednesday. He is not much bigger than a Rabbit. I hear she has been very weak since, but I hope will soon get y° better of it."
  • Darby Mahony may be a brother of John. Dennis & Darby Mahony of Dunlough (Dunloe) were captured by the British in 1745 when they were going to help Bonnie Prince Charlie.

Plus a few others you may not have seen:

Memorial 118418 23rd September 1755 Richard White leases property to Derby Delaney of Glangarriff - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJM-K955-Y?i=292&cat=185720

(HC Sept. 1772) - TO be sold together, or separately, the WOODS of Skehill, Coolranny, D……la, Droumdour, Dromclarig, Cap….ta and Glinlough, in the barony of Bear and Bantry, and county of Cork, all convenient to water carriage to any part of the world. Proposals to be made to Mrs. Delany, at her house in Killarney, who will declare the purchaser as soon as the value is offered, and give sufficient time for the cutting of them. - http://corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/potpourri/corkancestors.com/Bantry.htm

Hugh Lawler is an apothecary in Killarney as of 1799: https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=vbtDAQAAMAAJ&q=lawlor#v=onepage&q=hugh%20lawler&f=false

Daniel Lawler is an apothecary in Killarney as of 1810: https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=vbtDAQAAMAAJ&q=lawlor#v=onepage&q=daniel%20lawler&f=false

Mary Delany's huband Peter Trant dies in 1832 (also see newpapers) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J8BB-2JS More on Peter here - https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=1592646940813552&story_fbid=1608681765876736 including:
"Peter Trant - his Will 1832. Peter Trant of Belvidere Cottage, Cork. I leave my farm of Myrtleville to my nephew Thomas Abercrombie Trant, also to him my furniture, plate etc. In case my brother James should survive me, the interest of £800 which I allow him, shall on his death be paid to my nephew William Trant, my niece Anna Maria Payne, my niece Clara Colley and to Messrs Good and Clarke in trust for the use of my nieces Elizabeth and Anne Nicholson, to Peter Trant Payne, eldest son of my niece Anna Maria £50.
 I appoint my nephew Thomas Abercrombie Trant executor of this my will signed 12th Feb., 1830. Peter Trant. Witnesses: Michael McDonnell, Johanna McDonnell.

Codicil made 25th March 1832. In consequence of death of my nephew, Captain Thomas Abercrombie Trant, mentioned in my said will, I devise to my brother Major General Sir Nicholas Trant all my interest in Myrtleville, Co. Cork. To my nephew William Trant £150, and to my niece Clara wife of said William £50. To Mrs Anna Maria Payne, my niece, £120. To Mrs Clara Colley £150. To Elizabeth and Anne Nicholson, my said grandnieces, £100 each. I give to Eliza, the widow of my late nephew Henry O'Shea, £50. I give all the residue of my property to my brother Sir N. Trant, and I appoint him sole executor of this my will.

Witnesses, Thomas Boister, Surgeon, 17, Queen's Buildings, Knightsbridge; Michael McDonnell.
 Probate granted to Sir Nicholas Trant of 12, Holles Street, Dublin. 24th May 1832."

Memorial 1833/8/6 Names James, Daniel, Ellen Shine, Mary Ann, & Florence plus John Shea Lawlor - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-F9RV-P?i=366&cat=185720

Memorial 1833/17/174 Daniel Lawlor and Ellen Shine deed - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-8PD?i=344&cat=185720

Mary Ann daughter of Hugh died 1833 in Killarney, some newspaper reports give her a brother who was a Lieutenant in the East India Company
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiH--vQvavbAhVpL8AKHdi0Cg0QFghGMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.limerickcity.ie%2Fmedia%2F09%252014%252033.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0KKzBPwP4Isl4gZJBNENKc Which Hugh she belongs to I don't know.

I think the flurry of deeds in 1824 and 1833 correspond to the deaths of Hugh and Martin. James may have died as early as 1804, the will at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D374642 was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury suggesting that he died outside Ireland.