Author Topic: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry  (Read 4715 times)

Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #108 on: Monday 02 July 18 08:28 BST (UK) »
I haven't seen any lives expiring on this but then Maria did live until 1842.

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Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #109 on: Tuesday 03 July 18 18:13 BST (UK) »
Another one I didn't post before.

An 1837 deed between John Shea Lawlor and Anastatia Shea at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-SP44?cat=185720 Mentions the "Doctor's House" and is witnessed by Alexander Lawlor of Castlereagh. The lawyer David Mahony is the brother of Pierse Mahony, it's said that Pierse did all the talking and David did all the work.

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Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #110 on: Saturday 07 July 18 13:26 BST (UK) »
"(MRS.) MARY DELANY to KENMARE.
Glingaruffe, 7 Feb., 1761.
Regretting, with thanks notwithstanding, his inability to let
Knockreer to her and her husband. Refers to his frequent
proofs of kindness to her.
Addressed to Killarney."

Kenmare Manuscripts

Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #111 on: Tuesday 10 July 18 16:30 BST (UK) »
It was at this period in this long-drawn-out litigation that the autograph letter from the Rev. Thomas Orpen to Earl John, which I owe to the courtesy of the present Lord Lansdowne, was written. It is dated 23 February 1756, and begins as follows:

" My Lord, sometime in September last I was served with a Subpoena at your Lordship's suit, and having observed that Dr. Lawlor was mentioned in the same Subpoena I wrote to him to know if he could inform me what it meant, who returned me for Answer that he had a copie of your
Lordship's Bill, that Mr. Arthur Crosbie was then at his house, who earnestly requested to see me, that if I would comply I should see the Bill, and that by my giving a Joint Answer with them I should save a good deal of expense. I wrote to tell the Doctor that I was determined to answer alone, let the consequences as to costs be as it would. I excused myself for not going to Mr. Crosbie, but pressed at the same time for a copy of the Bill. One or two letters to the same purpose passed between me and the Doctor. . . ."

This was regarding the legality of leases held by the Mahonys in Kerry.

Offline Gilby

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #112 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 15:24 BST (UK) »
Interesting to see that Mary Delany (née Lawlor) was already involved in business affairs 5+ years before her husband died.  That would be pretty unusual for the times?  I like to imagine that as the granddaughter of the “great and terrible papist” Daniel Mahony she was a force to be reckoned with.

I see the Orpen book refers to Daniel Mahony as being the second son of John Mahony – with the eldest being Denis/Donogh Mahony.  I wonder if the Miss Mahony who married Donal O’Donoghue could have been Denis’s daughter rather than Daniel’s…?

Little puzzle on the Lawlor side…

According to the Poets of Ireland (O’Donoghue, 1912), Denis Shine Lawlor was the author of “The Harp of Innisfail” which was published in 1828/9 under the initials “D.S.L.”

However, the introduction to that book refers to the author being in his 30th year and 20 years settled in Killarney.  Considering Denis Shine Lawlor was born in 1808, how could this be him?

Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #113 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 15:36 BST (UK) »
I think the main objection to Honora wife of Donal O’Donoghue being daughter of Daniel was that she would have been about the same age as her daughter. Similar logic would apply a daughter of Denis/Donogh Mahony.

There is another claimant as per “Materials for a history of the family of John Sullivan of Berwick, New England, and of the O'Sullivans of Ardea, Ireland by Meredith, Gertrude E.; Burke, Bernard, Sir,; Amory, Thomas C.”

“My Mother's name was Joane McCarthy, daughter to Dermod McCarthy of Killowen. She had three brothers and one sister her mother's name I forget but she was Daughter to MacCarthy Reak of Carbery. Her oldest brother was Coll Florence alas Mac ffinnin. He and his two Brothers Capt. Charles and Capt Owen went in the defence of the nation against Orange. Owen was kill'd in the battle of Airim. Florence had a son who retains the title of Mac ffinnin. Charles I just remember he had a charge of powder in his face at the Siege of Cork. He left two sons, Derby and Owen. Derby married With Ellina Sullivan Of the Sullivans of Bannane; his brother Owen married to Honora Mahony, Daughter to Dinish Mahony of Droummere in the Barony of Dunkerrane or Cappenecussiss. He also Died in the prime of life much Lamented."

Offline Gilby

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #114 on: Thursday 12 July 18 10:32 BST (UK) »
I was thinking that if we took Canon John Mahony’s version of events, John Mahony’s second marriage was in 1665, so his eldest sons Denis and Daniel would have been born c1660-1665. 

Land was purchased for Denis in 1686 – he could have been full age by then and have a daughter born c1685?  If so, would she be old enough to be the mother of Maur-ni-Dhuiv?  Do you have any dates for Maur-ni-Dhuiv – all I have is that she must have been born before 1710…?

I wonder if the original 18th century pedigrees survive anywhere.

Where are you getting the name Honora from by the way (as in for the daughter of Daniel)?

Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #115 on: Thursday 12 July 18 11:49 BST (UK) »
The data on the Mahony family in the late 17th century is rather difficult to put together.
  • Daniel Mahony was allegedly 20 at the time of the "Grand Lease" of 1696. He certainly wouldn't have been 30.
  • Somewhere in my files I have something about French Spanish Mahonys claiming descent from Dromore before 1686.
  • Denis Mahony is only listed as having one wife, Alice O'Connell. Some sites say she was still having children as late as 1738! Anyhow she appears to be alive in the late 1750's as evidenced by deeds at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNH-D9YH-M?i=232&cat=185720 and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-SXPX?i=201&cat=185720. So having a daughter before 1686 is a stretch.
  • Maur-ni-Dhuiv died in 1795, supposedly aged 90. Her eldest son John was born in 1725 and he had two older sisters. So 1710 is probably a tad late, Mrs Morgan O'Connell guesses 1708.
  • As for Honora being daughter of Daniel, that's my supposition. We know:
    a) Daniel's son John had a sister married to a Lawlor. He wrote in 1750 “Sister Lawlor got a young son last Wednesday. He is not much bigger than a Rabbit.”.
    b) Daniel's son Darby was the late uncle of James Lawlor, as per James' will.
    c) Honora Lawler was buried at Muckross Abbey in 1754.
    - of course this may be a case of 2+2=5

Offline John Falvey

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Re: Delany / Delaney of Cork and Kerry
« Reply #116 on: Thursday 12 July 18 14:23 BST (UK) »
Alice Ferriter is Maire Ni Dhuibh's mother according to Burke's Irish Family Records - http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/nbl/lh_nbl_show5.php?mysession=&choice=&id=051391&pdfpage=940